But in practice that’s simply not true. A manager is not given 25 players with set roles; on most teams he had access to 30-35 players in spring training, has to select from that, and is often responsible for determining the roles they’ll play.
In 1985, Bobby Cox, then managing the Blue Jays, decided to give the closer’s role to a 27-year-old minor league veteran named Tom Henke. This in the middle of a pennant race. Most managers would not have had the guts or brains to try something like that, but as Henke ended up saving 311 games I’d say that one worked out.
Cox continued to make similarly brilliant decisions as a manager with the Braves; I really, honestly do not believe most managers would have had the brains to array his young players in critical roles they could succeed in the way Bobbv Cox did. Had Jimy Williams been managing the Blue Jays in 1985 instead of 1986, there is no way Tom Henke becomes the relief ace. Had anyone else been managing the Braves in the 90s, I really don’t think that team could have kept reinventing itself every year.
I don’t believe a manager ever won a pennant. Casey Stengel won all those pennants with the Yankees. How many did he win with the Boston Braves and Mets? I’ve never seen a team win a pennant without players. I think the only thing the manager has to do is keep things within certain boundaries
Whay doed he know.?
What a load. Some teams have open try outs. Hundreds show up. Doesn’t matter ,all the good ones are thoroughly scouted.
Lots of managers have brought up unknowns who fail. When it succeeds its luck .When it fails it is bad luck. Its a simple game. No brilliant decisions are neede. Just dont screw it up too badly.
The Chiba Marines had consistently finished in 5th or last place for years because they couldn’t create a strategy and stick to it. The team is owned by the Lotte company, and every executive and sub-executive and intern and their wives insisted that they knew exactly how the team should be run. Each day’s lineup depended mainly on which busybody had bullied the manager last.
When they hired Bobby Valentine in 1995, he told them all that he was now The Decider and ignored all their input about what he should do with the team. They finished 2nd, their best in 10 years. Valentine was fired, and they promptly went right back to last place. He was brought back again in 2003, and by 2005 they won their first Championship since 1974. Might be a statistical fluke, but he seems to matter.
He is given a team. On that team is a pitcher Henke. Does he use him. Of course he does. Then he does well does he continue using him or not. Yes in a fit of genius he uses a player who is doing well. Yes clearly great managing. If he did badly ,the genius would have sat him.
3 years ago, the Detroit tigers lost 119 games. Last year, the lost 91. 9 players on today’s team were there when they lost 119. Almost all of them were there when lost 91 last year.
In the interviews with the players following their win to clinch a Word Series berth, they were all asked about the turn around and what was responsible. All of them said what was most responsible was Jim Leyland, the new manager. He changed the way they thought about themselves as a team.
I can understand that maybe you don’t believe that. And that’s OK. But they believe it.
I would argue that a manager can probably do more to lose a game than win it.
Tony La Russa is a perfect example of my theory. His addiction to playing “musical bullpen,” especially with his LOOGYs, probably costs his team a few wins a year. Why? Because he’ll remove a starter or reliever who’s cruising in favor of a lefty-lefty matchup, and then he’s forced to burn another reliever when the opposing lineup has 5 righties in a row.
Can a manager help his team win by setting the tone for the organization? Certainly. To continue with the TLR case study, his team’s performance is almost always proportional to how “tight” he’s managing. If he’s putting a lot of pressure on himself and the team to win, they start pressing and lose their edge. When he pulls back and relaxes, the team starts hitting again (compare NLCS Game 1 with Game 2.)
Could a trained chimp manage a ML team to more than 40 wins? The continued employment of Mike Hargrove and Dusty Baker would seem to indicate so.
Which is why I did not say “Hundreds of players.” At least make an effort to read the posts you’re replying to, champ.
Why “of course”? He did NOT have Henke on the team at first; Henke started the year in the minor leagues. He promoted Henke past several experienced relief pitchers to become the closer. You can say all day that it was an obvious decision, but it was not. Many, many managers would have left Henke to rot in the minor leagues, or if such a pitcher were brought up by the GM, would have used them to pitch junk innings.
In your opinion many managers would have sat Henke forever. Playing him was genius. Your definition is not mine,
Point was ,since you are having trouble understanding it, was that 33 or 35 as short of the fact. They have a lot more. Read and understood champ. I was granting he has to pick from more than 20. A lot more. Its not that hard and he has a lot of help. Pitching coaches, batting coaches etc. A comittee. scouts management and in NYC owners.
Baseball is an old and simple game. It is getting more specialized and demanding now. Computers have provided teams with info never available before. I suspect after todays neanderthals die off ,future managers will be much improved. Billy Beane types for the future.