Lost an embarrassing series against Detroit, and now it’s TORRE’s fault! MWAHAHAHAHAHAH! What a bunch of maroons! Is there something in the water up in NY? Or just a buncha st00pid people? :dubious:
It’s somebody’s fault. For all the circus-like distractions Steinbrenner has created in years gone by, I would not fault him here. You have the highest payroll by far in MLB, and two years in a row you’re dumped in the first round, and the year before that you lose a 3-game-to-none lead in a series? Sorry, I’d want something more for my $200M.
I like Joe Torre and think he has deserved a lot of the credit for NY’s success. But what has he done for George lately? With a stacked line-up like that, isn’t it natural for Georgie-boy to ask WTF? 3 runs over the last 2 games, including Posada’s meaningless homer in the ninth yesterday? The production they got out of some of their big hitters?
Yeah, it’s fair to ask, what is Joe supposed to do, bat for them? It’s also fair to ask how such an under-performing team (in the playoffs, which is all that counts to the Yankees) would have reacted to a Lou Piniella. Joe has always been rightly lauded for his even-keeled, calm approach. Well, what if it’s an apparently undriven, complacent team that needs a kick in the ass? And I do believe that sometimes a change is needed for change’s sake, even if the manager isn’t the principal fault. It shakes up a dead-ass group, sends a message, makes it clear that change has to occur.
I love baseball. It’s almost as much fun to talk and speculate about it as it is to watch it. This should get real interestin’.
I don’t think George gets off the hook so easily. Sure he was less of a distraction this year (and as an avid Yankee Hater, I miss the old days) but the personnel decisions over the past few years have been…odd. This lands on Cashman’s lap but he has been a yes man to The Boss for so long how can it not be his fault?
They pay WAY too much for pitching seamingly under the asumption: ‘He had a great career, let’s sign him to an overpriced long-term contract.’ This worked with Roger Clemens but sure hasn’t since then:
The Big Unit?..too old and broken down for a post season push
Kevin Brown?..Had serious health issues before he even arrived
I could go on.
In short you have to ask the question: Are these guys even worth $200M? I would say no.
The thing that gets me is something many, many baseball writers have pointed out over the last few years: lately they have mostly concentrated on big name free agent aquisitions. But the teams they had real success with, in the late 90s, were not built that way. They mostly came up through the Yankees farm system. Those teams were built on good pitching and timely hitting, not over the hill starters and free-agent bashers.
They need to get back to the formula they historically had success with. I like Joe Torre but at this point I wouldn’t be too sad if he was gone. I could see Pinella, or maybe Joe Girardi, stepping in.
I wouldn’t be a bit surprised if A-Rod wasn’t on the team by spring training. But for the love of all that is sacred, please don’t try to acquire Manny Ramirez.
A-Rod will waive his no-trade clause by the middle of the off-season. I wonder if the Dodgers can make a play for him? But there will definitely be a new look to everything come spring training. New manager, a few new faces…but $5 says they make the same mistakes, and all the new guys are big-ticket stars at the end of their careers.
The Yankees have the lowest price/performance ratio in the league, they pay full market value, or higher, for 90% of their players. There are maybe 2-3 guys on the entire team who are young up and comers with cheap contracts. Teams like the the A’s and Tigers are probably built the other way around.
When they started winning, they had young guys from the farm system, and a few key role players filling in the rest. Now, there are almost no young guys, and everyone is a high priced free agent.
I do think they did a very nice job getting to the playoffs this year, after losing three big bats out of the lineup for extended periods. But with everyone healthy, their performance just stunk something fierce.
They definitely need a new strategy for pitching, all of these ancient hurlers just depress me. I like most of their position players, though I’d get rid of Giambi and Sheffield at least, and A-Rod doesn’t seem suited for the team, as much as it pains me to say.
I would also not exactly shed a tear if someone else was managing next year.
So why is this in IMHO instead of the pit? Heck of an op there. Are Yankee fans not suppose to take offense?
Torre may or may not be fired, the team probably needs a change, there is a great candidate out there currently, Sweet Lou Pinella. Torre is an average at best field manager. This has hurt the Yankees many times in the post season. His great value is dealing with the club house of superstars, Steinbrenner and the Media. Ironically, he did a great job this year getting the Yanks through the season without so many players and the ultimate problem is the lack of Aces in their prime. But Torre might take the fall and it might be the best thing for the team. Most of the Coaches would probably stay for Lou. Mattingly, Bowa and Guidry are friends.
The biggest worry I have as a Yankee fan is that Cashman loses the power he finally got, he has a long range plan to get the Yanks off the Superstar free agent road to disaster and back to development and trades supplemented by free agents.
Jim
Agreed they are not, you forgot to include Wright and Pavano and Farnsworth.
All poorly thought out recent acquisitions. We went after Sheffield instead of Vlad or Beltran last year. We then grabbed the aging Damon who will look overpaid in another year. A-rod was not a bad decision, it just has worked out well in the post season, but it was hard to know that before the trade.
The Yankees have been throwing away money for years now. They are finally trying to get back on course. Now it is up to George. This brings me to **silenus’ ** post.
If the Dodgers or Angels or someone else could offer up a really good young Ace the Yankees should seriously consider it. We need Starters not offense right now. The Yanks could get by with a good defensive Third Baseman with all the other offense.
Jim
Moderator note. I have to agree that your OP was a rant and belongs in the Pit, but so far most of the posters are expressing opinions of what’s wrong, what may happen, etc.
So, let’s everyone keep the bashing to a minimum. At least keep it within the confines of IMHO.
samclem
Well, the Dodgers have a plethora of good, young pitchers. It’s been our strong point all year. We wouldn’t be searching for a third-baseman if Mueller hadn’t gotten crunched. But with him gone and Nomar hurting, we need some hitting at the corners. I don’t know what the Dodgers have coming up in the minors. If we have some talent there, it might be worth it to trade away some of the bullpen and a starter or two for A-Rod. I know he’d get a better reception out here than he has gotten in NYC.
The LA teams seem very logical, I actually hope they pursue the trade. The Dodger’s have the players to trade, the need for A-rod and the Media base to get him to waive his no-trade. As the Ranger’s already are paying a big chunk of his salary, the Yankees probably will not have to throw much cash in. Should be a good Hot stove season. Shame you and I are already sitting near the Hot Stove. Ideally we would have had the two teams in the World Series. Maybe next year.
Jim
A-Rod in Philly next year. Hmm. Fills in the hole at third base, puts a big right-handed stick behind Ryan Howard, and though Philadelphia fans are not known for their benevolent patience, I think there would be a different yardstick. NY is looking for their 27th WS championship, and expect their stars to produce BIG and on demand. 35 homers and 125 RBIs the year after you won an MVP? In Philly they’d be naming high schools after him. The Phils just want to get in the playoffs for the first time in what will be 14 years. I think the burden would be a little less crushing.
And I’m not sure he’d be getting much more than we had been paying Bobby Abreu. Hmm.
If he wants to deal Mr. Rodriguez, I’d happily take him if and only if George ate a massive chunk of his payroll. That should test him to see how badly he wants to unload him. (Not that other suitors won’t pop up…but if you have the pieces to make it work, the Yankees are not holding the cards.)
What’s he getting paid? $18M? That’s about $4M more than Abreu, right?
Anyway, you might be right as far as how to negotiate it, but I suspect there will be some club willing to pay “full price.” I’d love him on my Phils.
Keep dreaming and enjoy the championship round. The Yankees have no need to trade him with a lot of money. He is still a great player, just not a great fit in NY.
He will need a big market to waive his contract, the team will need a great young starter and some prospects. Detroit has the pitchers, but I do not know if they have the payroll and I know they do not have the market. Additionally, I do not think a slugger would want to go to that park.
Stratocaster, my contract sites are down right now, but I think he goes up to $19 next year and Bobby goes to $16.
Jim
A caller into WFAN’s Mike Francesa show this morning said it best:
“The blueprint to draw 4 million fans isn’t the same as the blueprint to win a World Series.”
I’m a lifelong Yankee fan and I think Torre’s firing is at least 2 years too late. He should’ve been out after the loss to the Marlins, or at the very latest, the choke to the Red Sox.
You think he’s a good field manager? I think he’s a superb manager of delicate personalities, a good long-range conceptual thinker, a good influence and a good delegator, but since Don Zimmer left (as another of Francesa’s callers noted), I think he’s been exposed as an in-game dunce.
Who said he was a good Field Manager? I did not see anyone say that.
Seattle actually got better when he left. So did Texas. This Sox fan is happy to let him stay in NY, and would be even happier if the Yanks dumped the best manager this group could possibly have.
But their roster is too old and their pitching is too thin, sure. The Sox can at least blame injuries, but their crop of youngsters is promising even if it no longer includes Hanley Ramirez or Anibal Sanchez or Freddie Sanchez or Cla Meredith or Josh Bard or Andy Marte, or maybe even Jon Lester. The Yankees have to rebuild around Robinson Cano and Melky Cabrera. Not quite so easy.
I’m just saying…if he’s a not a good in-game manager, and his team looks disoriented and unmotivated, there’s very little upside to keeping him, isn;t there?