As long as this turned to hot stove:
Many papers are supporting the idea that Torre is history and Pinella will be signed.
Would the Angels give up Santana and Figgins or Santana and 24 year old rookie catcher Mike Napoli for A-Rod? The Yanks would probably toss in 1-4 million per year and ask for a pair of single A prospects.
Santana would become the Yanks 2 or 3 starter and Figgins would play 3B or Napoli would start the process of taking over for the aging Posada. We would get younger in two positions and they would have the scary bat to go with Vlad.
The Yanks should let Sheffield and Moose walk. Sheffield is a free team option and Moose is only a 1.5 Million payout.
We might as well keep Wright, he cost 7 to keep or 4 to go. Keeping him effectively cost 3 million and then use him as a long guy/Emergency starter or minor trade.
We should even look into trading one of the following vets, some will seem shocking: Giambi (2 years to go), Abreu at $16 next year, Godzilla at $13 per year for 3 more years or Damon at $13 per year for 3 more years.
Yankees should be in the Zito sweepstakes, we could look into trading for Hudson from Atlanta, no clue how feasible this is, Andy Pettite or Ted Lilly would be good fall backs if Zito and Hudson fall through.
OK, tear me apart.
On Preview: I agree pseudotriton ruber ruber, it is time for him to go. I want Sweet Lou.
A-Rod would be a good fit in Anaheim. The Angels will be doing some substantial shuffling on the off season, and they’ve shown that they are willing to spend money if needs must. I’d rather see him in LA, but I don’t know what the long-term prog is on Mueller.
We had Pettite and we had Lilly. Pettite should have been kept, but no way he should return. Lilly was a disaster. We need, as others have said, new, young pitchers, not veterans hoping to eke out a few more seasons. Randy Johnson is the poster boy for that idea. Notice that Wells and Clemens, two other ex-Yankees, did not do their teams all that much good this year. Pitching is what let us down last year, and it’s what let us down again this year. The much beloved Mariano Rivera is not what he used to be either, and I don’t see an understudy in the wings.
IMHO, Torre is not to blame for the unfortunate state of the bullpen.
Why would they? They know they need young pitching, too.
There are plenty of other scary bats available that would cost less money and carry less baggage. Manny, for instance.
Are the Yanks going to pay half or more of those salaries as part of the deal? Can they actually get people who will help more for the next few years even if they do? Who’s going to make *those * deals, either?
If we do not bring back Moose, and we should not, we need to get some starters in. Zito may be very hard to get, the rest of the free agent crop is nothing special.
We should try to get Santana from the Angels, as he is only 23. We have Hughes coming up, we have 1 more season of Johnson. If we do not get Zito, Andy or Lilly should be acceptable and relatively cheap stopgaps. Tell be the young ace besides Zito on the Free agent market. This is why trading A-Rod might be the best thing for us.
There is no replacement for Mo, but Bruney might actually be capable of being a good closer in 2 years and he is only 25 now. Mo was 27 when he got going.
No guarantees, but a least a possibility. Between Darrell Rasner {age 25}, Jose Veras {25}, Jeff Karstens {24} and T.J. Beam{25} we might have some 5 starters and/or bullpen help from within.
Study the Yankees, it is not as bleak as it looks, we just need to ease up on the 34+ year old free agents. Andy is a special exception; he is one of our own.
What do you think Lilly would cost us? I think 3 year at around 5-7 per year. He would make a competent 3-4 guy I think.
I did not catch this on preview:
1: The story about Santana was mentioned nationally, it did not come from me, I would jump on it however.
2: A-Rod only carries baggage with the Yanks, Manny’s baggage is huge and heavy and you would be trading for an older player with only one year left. A-Rod is generally considered by GMs to be the #2 player in baseball after Albert Pujols.
3: I have no clue on the 4 vets, Giambi would require a huge amount of money, Abreu would probably only take 3-5 million at a guess. Matsui and Damon might not take as much. The Trade inquiries should be made, I am not suggesting it will be easy or possible.
4: Sad but true, I am afraid he will be given a stupidly long and large contract.
I always thought we should have kept Lilly. Didn’t we trade him for Jeff Weaver? Lilly has been an above 500 pitcher for pretty average teams, he’s a slightly above average starter. Is there something wrong with having a durable, young, average pitcher in the 4 or 5 slot? Look at the screwups we’ve had there since he’s been gone.
The Lilly trade is indicative of everything that’s gone wrong with this team. Trade a decent young pitcher who has a very reasonable contract for Jeff Weaver, who was supposedly some super-stud pitcher paid millions of dollars, who turned out to be worse than the guy you gave up. Then you spend the next few years with one lousy stopgap player after another, each of them paid millions.
Crap, I am not thinking clearly. If Torre is really gone and Pinella is really in than A-Rod has another chance in pinstripes. Jon Heyman made the point:
So the Yanks will have to try to find a young pitcher some other way. I thought I had a decent plan and a way to start shaving some money off the payroll, but this will not do it. They (George) will give Lou a chance to straighten out Alex. Very good article by the way. This is why he gets paid to conjecture and I post at a message board.
I think **Cheesesteak ** is 100% correct about Lilly and the rest.
Speaking as a Blue Jays fan, I really, really hope they fire Torre and hire Piniella. I will enjoy watching the Yankee dynasty collapse. Sure will be good for my team.
Playoffs are as much luck as anything else. In 11 seasons as manager, Torre has made the playoffs every years and won the Series 4 times. His career playoff record is 75-44. That’s an awesome, awesome playoff record. The fact that the wins clusted a bit more in 1996-2000 than 2001-2006 is as likely as not just random chance, and if anyhting else it’s the fact that Torre is having to work with successively older pitching staffs who’re tired when October rolls around.
Wow. The guy is the best manager you guys have had since Billy, or maybe even Stengel, and you bust him down because he can’t turn chicken shit into chicken salad. Unbelievable.
By the way, you guys already had Sweet Lou Pinella. What did he do for you? 2nd, 4th and 5th respectively. Yeah, that’s a guy I’d want back. He hasn’t even sniffed the Series since 1990.
Eeeeeexactly my point. Lou won’t end up being the answer, friend of the George or no friend. The correct answer is “Larry Bowa”. At LEAST he’ll be a stopgap that everyone knows that he’s a stopgap until the next manager.
I don’t get the whole fire the manager thing either. The Yankees spend a lot of money to buy older stars, have little to no young talent, and have had pitching problems for years now. The only way I can see it being Torre’s fault is if he had real control over hiring.
This group of players is chicken shit? By what possible definition? Every playoff for the last 6 years has ended in disappointment, and the owner has paid a kings ransom to get the best players possible each year.
Torre won 4 times with very good players, and that makes him the best of all managers, he loses 6 times and it’s not his fault. I think it’s correct to say managers get too much credit and too much fault, but you have to give him credit AND fault in the same amount, regardless.
Great point made on ESPN radio this morning driving in. The biggest thing the Yankees lacked in the playoffs was the drive to go the extra mile. Watching Kenny Rogers - a pitcher I typically think little of - pitch the game of his life and pump his fist the whole time, emotional to the point of tears - and you could tell they wanted it a whole lot more.
So, to me, the question is: what would it take for the Yankees to want it a whole lot more? IMHO, having Cano, Melky and Abreu brought fire in the belly to the team.
Will replacing Torre? Personally, I think if he was replaced with Girardi - a guy famous for having fire in his belly and not wanting to let his teammates down - then it might work. As for Sweet Lou, I don’t know enough of his details - he sure as hell did a great job with the Mariners, but never took them all the way…
Go after pitching
Lose some all stars and keep the young hungry players
I think the time has come for George to dust off the ax and let it swing. Torre had a great run, but it really is time for him to step aside. Bring in Pinella and the reign of Louis II.
What is wrong?
1- Middle relief. Rivera is still a great pitcher, getting to him is the problem. A carousel of journeymen pitchers at best.
2- Starting pitching. Johnson is showing his age. Beyond Mussina and Wang, the cupboard is pretty bare.
3- Too much outfield talent. Abreu, Cabrerra, Damon, Matsui, Sheffield, Williams. Except for Williams, any could start anywhere else. Trade one for a picther.
4- K Rod. Great player when it doesn’t matter, and poison in the clubhouse.
Time for a change, even Stengel & McCarthy got fired. Billy was fired enough to be a sad joke.
Torre had the option of not playing Sheffield, instead Sheff was suddenly playing first. Torre had the option of playing the team that won all the games. This would have meant playing Melky over the vet. Torre had the option of having a much quicker hook in the elimination game with Wright. He sat there fiddling.
Despite the obvious fact the Farnsworth was another over-rated over-payed reliever, Torre kept using him as the primary setup guy all year when Proctor was obviously better and Bruney had appeared better. He blew out Villone with overuse and tried his hardest to blowout Proctor.
Do we need to talk about the Red Sox debacle?
Do we need to talk about the loss to the Marlins?
BtW WordMan: Girardi would be a good choice, but when it comes to fire in the Belly, only Pete Rose has more fire in the Belly than Lou Pinella.
I tend to agree with RickJay here. There is a lot of luck involved in the playoffs. What the Yanks should lobby for is for 7 game series throughout the playoffs.
That said. . .my rooting interests have just diminished 50%. The Yanks losing is the world series for me. Now, I’ll root for Detroit because I like them, but not as hard as I would root against the yanks in every series.
And seeing A-Rod go 1-14, and get moved to eighth – fucking EIGHTH – in the order was just so pleasing. There are occasional stories that end the way you want them in sports. This is one. A team trounced by a team with a third of it’s payroll, none of the big name stars. Two big name pitchers getting beat. I just love it.
Obviously, sir, I agree. The question is whether that fire burns a bit too hot. Piniella, like Bowa and Billy Martin, seemed to subvert their own leadership skills with their passion - they fight and scrap with their own players and get in so much pain when they lose that it castes a shadow - not a good managerial trait. I get the impression that Girardi burns hot like a Marine - he channels it into discipline and esprit de corps…
