Wait, what?
I am a single parent and make about $35K a year. I’d be expected to pay $3500 annually to be a part of a church? :eek: Um, that works out to be like $67 a week, which is the better part of our grocery bill…
Oh well, guess we’ll just stay atheists.
You wouldn’t be expected to do that in the vast majority of U.S. churches. True tithing is rare. You just give what you can. There are even stories in the Bible about women with children giving what they can and still having a place of honor above richer people that gave more because it was harder for them.
In fact, only rarely has any church I’ve ever been a member of given a specific “true” tithe (and then it was 5%, not 10). The rest of them have stressed contributing according to what we have.
I’ve been in leadership in a lot of Lutheran churches, from a megachurch (St. Andrew’s, Mahtomedi, for you Twin Cities types) to the “well, it’s 10 minutes early but we’re all three here so we can start if you like” size. Plus, I talk to a lot of church leadership regularly.
I can say with some authority that all churches are running on the edge of their budget. (Some have foundations, but the foundations pay interest into the budget. I’m talking about income-outgo here.) Churches aren’t banks, and have a strong institutional bias to spend the money.
It goes for regular operating expenses, but also for programs that range from music and worship to feeding the hungry, opening the doors to the homeless, supporting missionaries, schools and hospitals, and whatever the local congregation feels called to do.
In general, people will support what they believe in. Most churches put a running total (expenses, budgeted income, actual income) in the bulletin and newsletter, and if it gets too far out of whack the pastor will point that out. There are sermons about stewardship (time, talent and treasure) when it seems appropriate from the readings. Tithing is mentioned, but not required.
There are regular updates on the programs supported by the church. Almost always, if a program is in danger of closing for lack of money, if the congregation supports it, the money will be found.
Congregations that don’t have the financial support to run their programs close, plain and simple. Either they find programs that the membership supports, and that draw in new people, or they don’t. It’s pretty darwinian actually. There isn’t money at any level to support congregations that consistently can’t balance their books, and they close.
I have never heard of a congregation with a savings account that would enable it to do without member support, and members know that. People support what they believe in. Our congregation is (as always) teetering, but we made the decision to call a new pastor that we technically can’t afford, and start a program feeding neighborhood people free dinners, because we believe that we’re supposed to, and that the money will be found to support worthwhile ministry. That’s the way church finance works.*
*My father is an economist, and tends to get tapped for the treasurer position. “Faith based accounting” gives him the heebie jeebies, but he admits that it does work, for certain values of work.
We have a very talented CPA parishioner who was (inevitably) named treasurer. She does a great job, although it’s a lot different from her day job.
So, if not by via this “thithing”, how else do they get the money to build those huge opulent churches?
Also, someone tell me again, why is it exactly that these huge churches on 40 acres of prime land don’t pay a cent in property taxes?
In the annual “please give” sermon at all Catholic churches I’ve ever attended, the suggested rate has been more like 2%. In fact, you can attend mass, receive all the sacraments and send your kids to the local Catholic school without contributing any money at all.
Most parishioners are generous for a good cause.
Many churches rely on very large donations from a small number of members. People over 70 and 1/2 can take their required minimum distribution from an IRA and contribute to charity, such as a church. Also, many times a church receives a donation from an estate when a member dies.
At my previous United Church of Christ church, one of our membership classes dealt with donating money. There were also several mentions of donating and tithing throughout the year.
I don’t know anyone in their prime earning years who tithes. However, as people get older, they tend to have more money and catch up on their donations especially if their expenses have gone down. A member who is still bringing in a decent income, but is done paying for their kid’s college and has more disposable income will often increase their contributions to make up for some of the smaller contributions they made in their earlier years.
When I was a kid in the 50s every one of us kids in the family (approaching 8) were given 3 coins so we all were able to thrust our hand into each of 3 velvet black bags with a handle so we could drop a donation free from the temptation of pride, or the pain of inferiority. We paid what we could afford.
Bags vs open plate is probably the only thing the Canadian Reformed Church had going for it compared to other churches I have attended.
Mileages vary, I guess.
My wife and I are Catholic and we have never formally tithed or donated to the church. I add something to the basket when we go but it’s always in the form of unwrapped, untraceable cash and we’ve never once used the formal donation envelopes. When we got married in the church, the subject of us not being “real” members never came up. When my son was (finally) baptised, the subject of my past donations, or lack thereof, was never brought up.
I’m not questioning your experiences but they don’t seem to be universal throughout the Catholic Church.
I made the descision to tithe 30 some years ago. I am now 61, so I would say I have ththed during my prime earnings years. I have tithed on all my income including unemployment. I would never attend or tithe at a church that demanded it.
God loves a chearful giver. If you can not give chearfully then don’t.
That doesn’t make them right, it just makes that how they practice their religion.
And, contradictory passages do not negate the fact that the bible still says that the old testament should not be ignored. It only makes for contradictory passages - but that’s getting into another conversation entirely.
Jesus himself said the old testament should not be ignored.
At my UU fellowship, you can be a member or a friend. Members sign the membership book and make a pledge. You’re given a little card with suggested pledges, based on salary (around the 2-3% mark, also), but you can pledge anything you want. Friends make pledges but don’t sign the membership book. I’m not sure what circumstances would cause someone to choose that option, but I’m sure there are many people who are attracted to UU who feel a little funny about being an official member. If you’re not a member or a friend, you can attend indefinitely, including Religious Education classes, but after about 6 months, people will start hinting about becoming a member or at least putting in some volunteer time.
Toward the beginning of this thread, someone mentioned that people notice who is putting a little envelope in the basket on Sunday. That made me chuckle a bit, because at our fellowship, the baskets go around and only a handful of people put anything in them (mostly visitors). Most people I know (including us) just have a regular check sent out through online banking or contribute on our fellowship’s website. The only time we put anything in the basket is if our kids are with us and they put a dollar or two in. We just got the end-of-year letter updating us on the fellowship’s budget and pledges received in 2008. Pledges were nearly 100% fulfilled this year and it was reasoned that the slight shortfall was due to economic hardships people are facing lately.
Years ago, I’m told, this was so for our very large and well-off Episcopal parish. The story goes that the rector would gather the ten most wealthy parish leaders, vestrymen and their ilk, for a glass of sherry in his office at the end of the year. He would say something like, “Donations from the parish are off slightly and we have a $130,000 shortfall in the budget. There are ten of you, so $130,000 divided by ten is…” The gentlemen (and they all were, in those days) were expected to obligingly pull out their checkbooks and make up the difference, and they did. Noblesse oblige.
That is no longer the case.
Sorry, I totally missed this yesterday. I see your point, but I can explain! First, to LDS adults, the covenants one makes in the temple are sort of the adult commitment to a covenant with God. Baptism (which we only do age 8 and up) is the first step, temple covenants come later. You can compare it to first communion or confirmation in other churches, I think, particularly those that want you to be at least a teen before doing it.
Anyway, one makes several different covenants there. One is specifically about time and money. The LDS Church teaches that tithing is a lower law, and that if we were really doing well we’d be living the law of consecration, as the early Christians did (in Acts, remember everyone had everything in common?). So we promise that if and when the time comes, we’ll live this higher law of consecration. So from my POV, it makes no sense to make that promise to God unless I’m already properly living the lower law of tithing. Does that help?
(Sorry if this is a hijack, I know I’m very late with this.)
I’ve been out of the loop since yesterday morning. I just wanted to chime in and thank everyone for their posts. It seems that there is a very wide variation in how this is handled.
We seem to have quite a few people whose places have regular dues, quite a few whose places manage adcequately only on voluntary donations, and quite a few who’d like to keep it voluntary but end up having to nag their people with varying degrees of severity.
My guess is that this a natural result of verying group of people having varying degrees of generosity, and varying degrees of income, and so on.
After having formally joined, the requirements to stay a member are:
To have taken communion within the last 2 years; and
To have contributed within the last 2 years.
We are a member of the Evangelical Lutheran Church of America. I don’t recall if the “contribution” has to be monetary (I don’t think so), but if it did, I know a penny would count.
Reminds me on “All In The Family,” when Archie and Edith went to enroll Stephanie in a school to teach her how to be Jewish.
Archie found out the fee wasn’t for the school it was so that he could be a member of the temple
