Is it really a good idea to have illegal aliens voting in American elections? What are the consequences?
(My question is sparked by this tidbit in the news today: New Haven Democrat mayor wants to allow non-citizen votes)
If a city wants to allow illegals to vote in municipal elections, that is up to them. Illegals still can’t vote in state or federal elections, no matter what the city of New Haven does regarding municipal elections.
“Democrats” as one body? No. Some mayor in New England? Apparently.
One particular Democrat wanting this does not imply that all Democrats want it.
(I should have posed this in Great Debates, sorry for the misplaced thread)
Aren’t municipal elections under some sort of state or federal rules against this? Foreigners voting in American elections seems wrong.
So not to get sidetracked - what consequences may be had from allowing non citizens a right to vote in American elections?
I agree. Moving from GQ to GD.
Colibri
General Questions Moderator
With the exception of the requirements guaranteed via the Reconstruction amendments, and the two suffrage amendments, states have sole discretion to determine eligibility for voting. If Connecticut has devolved that right upon municipalities such as New Haven (I don’t know if they have) then they can allow illegal immigrants to vote.
There was a proposal in New York City to allow permanent residents (not illegal aliens) to vote in municipal elections. I like that idea, but it never went anywhere.
Generally, the Democrat constituency encompasses the poor and downtrodden, minorities, yada. (I hope this is a relatively self-evident truth?)
Sucking up to a specific minority and giving the the right to vote is obviously a good move if you think you will benefit from their vote.
Whether it’s a good idea, and how you control it, are GD topics.
Basically, the concept of allowing citizens to vote means the people with a stake in what happens to their community get to decide. If you allow those with limited ties to the community, or those who may be gone tomorrow, to select the government, then you run the risk that the winners in the election may not have the best interests of mainly the permanent residents at heart.
Of course, the USA generally has willfully ignored the illegal immigrant propblem (GD here again) to get a class of low-wage workers; they are as permanent as anyone else in the context of a municipality and modern mobility. Unless their employers(citizens) are violating the law, they pay income tax. They pay sales taxes. They or their landlords pay property taxes. Why shouldn’t they vote?
There was also a proposal in San Francisco to allow permanent residents (not illegal aliens) to vote in school board elections, but it also never went anywhere.
As a Canadian I had no idea that Republics or Democrat’s were responsible for municipal elections. Does a small town mayor actually represent a Federal/State party?
Historically, this isn’t new. As was mentioned in the article, most states allowed non-citizens to vote in the 19th century, and the last state to ban it was Arkansas in 1926.
I would argue that if they care enough to vote in American elections, they are Americans. If they live here and work here, I consider them Americans.
Basically, I’m opposed to the entire concept of “illegal alien”. I didn’t have to pay a shit ton of money and wait decades to become a citizen. If you live here, you’re as American as I am.
I’ve never known any illegals that weren’t paid under the table, thus not paying income tax, unless they are paying it quarterly and being honest, which I don’t see happening.
They shouldn’t vote, because they shouldn’t be here. If you don’t like the rules, change them, you don’t break them.
And don’t forget services illegals take up to. Sure you can pay sales tax and have 10 years of sales tax wiped out by one unpaid visit to a county hospital. Because you get no insurance, as you’re getting paid under the table.
It’s also estimated nearly half of all illegal alien income is funneled back to their homelands. So if you have someone earning $100 a week, $50 of it’s going back into an economy that will not help anyone.
Illegals also make it possible for slum lords to exist because the won’t report substandard conditions. They refuse to report crime, either witnessing or being victims. They are not the cause of this but they are helping to create a condition where it exists.
I don’t fault illegals, after all they are here because the employers want them. The common myth is illegals work jobs Americans don’t want. They are working jobs that are illegal and dangerous to begin with. You give an illegal alien, legal status and he just quits and finds a “real” minimum wage job. Thus the illegal job opens up and is filled up with another illegal. So it is the employers creating the demand.
Like prostitution, it is blamed on the women, but the men create the situation that allows it to exist.
Non-citizen does not equal illegal alien. I mean, really, jeez.
Should legal residents be allowed to vote in school board elections? The school board controls the school budget, which will affect all legal residents’ children and their real estate taxes. Small town mayors and town councils will control traffic and parking regulations and availability – the legal resident may be a shop owner in that town, right? I can definitely see an argument for allowing all legal residents a vote on such items, since they are so personally and directly affected, both through their kids’ education and through their wallet.
ETA: Well, shut my mouth, the mayor apparently really does want to allow illegal immigrants vote, at least according to the article. I oppose.
This is how I feel about the subject as well. This doesn’t bother me in the slightest.
There are no federal parties in the American system, really. All political offices are elected via state elections and partisan candidates are backed by state party organizations. To the extent that national parties exist, it is that the 50-some-odd state and territorial organizations on each side are coordinated and organized by national committees.
Even the president and vice president have to contend with their aligned party organizations in every state, by getting their slate of electors on the ballot there.
First - forgetting illegals, what do you feel about non-citizens voting?
Second, remember “no taxation without representation?” If you are opposed to legal non-citizens voting in municipal elections, do you think they should be excused from paying taxes since they have no voice in how their tax money is spent?
Yes, because they’re far more likely to vote Democrat than Republican.
Having worked extensively with “Illegals” I can tell you nothing is further from the truth. If a employer raided by the INS/ICE, and they find that the employer has some sort of documents and pays all their employees normally and treats them about the same, there is plausible deniability. But if that employer is found to be paying their employees who happen to be illegals under the table, but the legal residents by means of W-2, etc, then there can even be criminal charges filed. Not to mention, paying employees under the table will also bring the IRS down on you, and no one wants that. Thus, to protect themselves, most employers get some sort of documents from their employees and pay them all by means of W-2, 1099, etc, even when they know damn well that “Jose” is a “illegal”.
Of course, there are illegals who do work under the table, but the same goes for dudes born here.
The bulk of the population of undocumented immigrants is Hispanic, and they tend to be quite conservative. If they are now more predisposed to vote for the Democratic Party it’s directly because of the actions of the Republican Party. Personally, as a person who generally votes Democratic, I find this pretty funny. I would never, ever be in favor of this anti-immigrant garbage, even if the immigrant population did vote Republican, but the fact that the Republicans are taking a group of people who probably would have been on their side, and are doing everything in their power to change that… well, that’s funny.