In a recent debate with my brother-in-law who is British, born and raised in Cape Town SA though. We were talking about a calender released a few years ago with naked school teachers on every cover. They were not the iconic Babe or Barbie, but regular everyday women. My sister threw in that she thought it was kinda weird and would not go over well here in the states.
My brother in law said:
So my Q is two fold. Why do American men and women have such an allergy to seeing a naked body in public? All you guys who come in and say “Oh I don’t mind seeing naked women”…I’m not talking about on the screen in front of you.
And for the European men and women, Why do you think the views are so different about naked bodies between Americans and Europeans??
I think this has its roots in American Puritanism, when all moral codes and values and every little detail about life was ruled by religion and the church.
Americans seem to be taught to be ashamed of their body, which is absolute nonsense.
I still find it amazing, that of Western countries, USA seems to have more people per capita that believe in god than any other country (well, Ireland aside, maybe…)
Personally, I believe in God, and derive much spiritual satisfaction from the contemplation of His works. Which, come to think of it, would include the naked human female body, wouldn’t it?
elfje-“I still find it amazing, that of Western countries, USA seems to have more people per capita that believe in god than any other country (well, Ireland aside, maybe…)”
Aw, y’know he’s talking about Europe’s habit in previous centuries of forcibly removing all religious types and shipping 'em overseas.
The religious conservatives of whatever flavour imposed their ‘the body is only for reproduction’ views on America, and now it persists in all its schizophrenic glory.
Now I like watching naked women as much as anybody (heck, even my razor is straight), but I do have some self-control in terms of my actual actions. Whereas America is the land of the “he might attack me in the future so I had to kill him today” defense.
It does, literally! To have one person believe in God per capita, then everybody would have to believe in God. (That means no atheists, no one who believes in G-d, no one who believes in a god, etc. ) So DanielWithrow is incorrect if there is at least one atheist in America; the number will be a fraction less than one. What you’re saying is that the US has the highest fraction, even though it is still less than one.
You devout American Catholics still grew up in America. You don’t usually get your ideas about naked bodies from the pulpit; you get them from the people surrounding you. Even if you are not the genetic descendent of the Puritans, you are the cultural decendent. So am I, as much as I hate to admit it.
Well, I’ve lived in Ireland, Britain, and in the US, and travelled in continental Europe, and in my observation, the further west one goes, the more prudish the population regarding people in the nuddy. (Of course going east from Europe we end up in some really prudish countries, so perhaps my theory doesn’t hold much water).
I’m not so sure about this concerning the US. When I lived in LA, I was pretty certain that the only thing that stopped local TV from showing full-frontal was that Puritanical FCC. Whereas, here in western NY, I’m not even sure people go to the shower naked.
FWIW, I truly believe that the average American really isn’t as puritanical as our government leads everyone to believe. I think if you could get 100% of the populaiton to vote on the issue, we would allow nudity on TV and on beaches.
The problem is that the religious right is a very powerful minority here. They are a group of well financed, well connected people who have nothing better to do than sit around and dictate how we should all live our lives. Every time someone bares a tit in this country, Jerry Fallwell, Pat Robertson, and various other dipshits raise Holy Hell over it, and everybody gives way rather than face the huge amount of shit they will fling your way if you don’t agree with them. It’s not unlike the infuence of the Catholic Church in Gallileo’s time.
I cite for example the extreme popularity of HBO’s programming for the past few years. HBO used to show mostly movies and variety shows. In the last few years, they have begun producing sitcoms and weekly-series type shows that have delivered SERIOUS competition to the censored, white-washed programs of network TV. These shows, like the Sopranos and Sex and the City are similar in plot and theme to network TV, but they show nudity, use four-letter words, and in some cases are more violent.
Look at how much internet porn is generated/viewed by American’s, and you’ll see that as a society we love nudity. The reason we don’t have it publicly, like in Europe is because of the opression of the Moral Minority. They have created a society which makes it difficult to be elected if a) you’ve had any normal level of sexual or experimental behavior, b) you are not a christian c) you are not happily married. Plus, a lot of us are too lazy or self-occupied to run for office, or have some skeleton in the closet that the media would certainly kill us with. So, the rules are made by squeaky-clean bible-thumpers with no life.
Aren’t we getting a little off topic here? The OP seemed to be referring to a calendar showing typical women such as you might see every day on the street, or in your office, sans cothing. Or, in other words, what I hear the OP asking is whether European men are more likely to enjoy looking at naked women who do not necessarily conform to Hollywood and Madison Avenue standards of physical beauty.
I can’t see any connection with Puritanism unless its that we’re so repressed that only the most beautiful women can induce us to overcome that repression. Actually I wouldn’t be surprised if that’s the case for many. Various discussions about nudity seem to bear that out, whenever anyone says that they wouldn’t want to go to a clothing optional facility for fear of having to see naked people who they think would look better clothed. This reinforces the idea that only some people should be privileged to go nude…women only, for one thing, and then only the most attractive of them.
I disagree, Metalhead. I don’t think the Moral Majority has much to do with it, frankly. And I also agree that Americans love nudity. There’s just a general belief that clothedness should be the common denominator. If someone wants to go around nude on their own, they can. If they want to show their kid porn or naked women, they can. Essentially, if you want to find nudity, go find it. There are nude beaches (at least on the West Coast), R-rated movies, porn, HBO, whatever if you like nudity. But people believe that public areas/airwaves, should be kept clothed so that those people that don’t want to expose their kids to that, or don’t want to expose themselves to that have the option.
I also disagree with Metalhead. There are plenty of people that I don’t want to see naked (and no one I can think of that I’d like to see naked on a daily basis right now). I don’t particularly want to turn on the TV and see naked people either. I like living in a culture where nudity must be sought out, because this means I can make the choice not to see it.
It’s not often I reply to a thread, and then someone else comes along with a reply that illustrates to a T the point I just made. I guess I don’t understand this revulsion against all but the most beautiful women baring all. I’ve been to a clothing optional club, and the naked people are – just there, you know? Men, women, fat, thin, old, young. To be sure, there are many who would look better with clothes on, but I found that I just stopped thinking about it after a while. In all honesty it feels so good to be nude outside on a sunny day that you can’t imagine it if you haven’t tried it. However, the point is not to look at other people, but to enjoy clothes-freedom yourself.
I won’t address the comment about nudity on TV, because that is certainly available to you one way or another if you want it. But when it comes to “seeking nudity out”, sometimes you have to seek quite a bit farther than befits a supposedly free country. For example, the entire coastline of Los Angeles County lacks a single nude beach. We’re so repressed that we can’t even surrender a few hundred yards of beach to those wishing to even out their tans. Oh sure, there are places where people do it anyway…and then get busted. But that’s hardly an attractive choice for most of those who would willingly frequent a legal nude beach.
) So DanielWithrow is incorrect if there is at least one atheist in America; the number will be a fraction less than one. What you’re saying is that the US has the highest fraction, even though it is still less than one.