A friend who does work on international HIV and AIDS often interviews prostitutes in various nations. In some Carribean nations there is an industry of American women who pay for sex. Some of them don’t want condoms. Asking why they would do it given rational fears implies that there isn’t a large population of people without significant personality disorders and other health problems that want this kind of fetishized exoticism as a sexual fantasy.
It’s called exploitation and prostitution, no matter how you slice it.
And a very good way of picking something nasty up, if not fatally so.
I’d say anyone going to Africa deliberately looking for anonymous casual sex is batshit crazy.
And since there are plenty of batshit crazy rich people, the story seems entirely plausible.
In Bali there is (or was) a sex industry of local boys who get money or presents for sex from visiting western women. I discovered this when approached on several occasions. Apparently, a lot of young Australian women have had their way with the local boys - they often carry around photos of the girl that will come back and marry them, ha! This isn’t quite as simple as usual sex industry when a relationship is not in the equasion. I believe that these boys will go with males as well.
What boggles me is that there could possibly be some shortage of young males willing to have sex… in any geographic location!
You too may be guilty of overgeneralizing. The central issue is the HIV infection rates among prostitutes in the Gambia, not the rate of the population at large. Your cited 2.24 percent would seem to be low. Any other comparison is meaningless.
Actually, in terms of the discussion, the relevant figure is not that for prostitutes in general, but for young males who specialize in consorting with European females. Unless these also tend to serve as homosexual prostitutes, or engage preferentially in sex with female prostitutes when not with foreign women, there is no reason to suppose that the rate in this subpopulation would be greater than that of the general population in the same age/sex class.
Originally posted by Carnac the Magnificent: “Given the coercion and exploitation implicit in these Thai/Filipino prostitution rings–and the young children often pressed into service, often by their parents–I’m not sure why any of that merits a smiley face. Children or not, prostitution has a brutal underbelly and is usually maintained through some form of coercion.”
I’m referring to regular western style bars and discos where adults go to dance and meet each other. You see plenty of consenting adults chatting with each other just like in America or Europe. I like Asian women, and my point is that not only western men like Asian women, but that some western women like Asian women also.
Not all of Asia revolves around prostitution, most of what you see in the media is blown way out of proportion.
To watch the media in Asia you would think that all of America is a dangerous hell-hole populated by gang-bangers. That is not true about America, of course, and possibly your impression of Asia is too skewed by the media.
Of whom by whom?
I think you’re starting from an unwarranted assumption that there is a population of “young males who specialize in consorting with European females”. There may be no such group. Even if the men concerned are not prostitutes as commonly understood, they may be the male equivalent of what used to be called a “good-time girl” (i.e. one who readily engages in sexual relationships in the hope of material rewards) or they may just be generally promiscuous. Either way, the rate of HIV infection may be greater than for the population as a whole.
In the African context, I suspect that the question of whether they also serve as homosexual prostitutes is irrelevant or, at any rate, is much less relevant than it would be in Europe. The primary vectors of HIV transmission in Africa are not homosexual.
To go back to the OP, the question was "is there a large number of European women who do this? Surreal linked to a number of newspaper reports, which referred to “sizeable numbers” of women. I don’t know, but I suspect this means sizeable relative to Banjul (pop. 229,000), not sizeable relative to Europe. There certainly isn’t the same public consciousness in Europe of sex tourism to Africa as there is of sex tourism to South-East Asia. And, of course, there are many places within Europe where you can go on holidays and expect to engage in lots of casual sex, if so inclined.
Perhaps I shouldn’t have said “specialize,” but just said “the subpopulation of males that engages in this activity.” Certainly there are some circumstances in which it might be possible that this subpopulation could have a higher HIV rate that the general population - I mentioned some other behaviors that would result in that in my previous post. However, there are other plausible behavior patterns that could result in their not having a higher rate. Without additional information on the behavior of this group, there’s no solid reason to suppose that their infection rate is particularly high. Certainly their female European clientele is unlikely to be a source of infection for them.
First of all, you guys have to see this movie:
Aloysius, about a Jamaican man whose
It’s hilarious.
Furthermore, it’s been my experience that sometimes it’s best to have your fun overseas, where no strings are attached. Even for women.
Also, as a white women who has travelled in the third world, I was quite popular with the gentlemen, possibly for reasons suggested by Maastricht above. It was certainly flattering, and I can imagine that a woman who doesn’t get much attention from men at home would be seduced by the appreciative attitudes of attractive, ‘exotic’ men.
(Is it difficult to accept that sometimes women want cheap sex, no strings?)
Of the poor by the rich. Or do you imagine there’s more to the relationship than money? :dubious:
Nobody calls men who go to Asia for sex “batshit crazy”, even though Asia is not exactly an HIV-free zone.
Women’s sex drives arn’t that different than men. They probably go to Africa for the same reason men go to Asia- to have consequence and attachment free sex with people they find beautiful and who are rumored to have very exciting sexual anatomy and practices.
And picking up random guys from bars isn’t exactly that satisfying for most women. Women want sex, but they also want good sex. Sex with a partner that cares about pleasing them, and that has the skills to please them. That is pretty unlikely considering the caliber of most guys that cruise around bars looking for people to take home.
Call me a cynic, but I think the reason is more to do with the a difference in the legal position and an increase in the value of their money. Were they offered the same opportunity for as little a cost in their home town I doubt they’d be such keen travellers.
And men don’t?
So women won’t find this in bars, but will find it in other countries, where there’s just the teeniest of suspicions that their partner’s motivation might have something to do with vast gulf in wealth between them?? :dubious: Sorry I don’t follow your attempts to make a difference between the genders here. Female sex tourists have exactly the same motivation as male. They go abroad because their money is is worth more than at home. Put bluntly; they can buy more sex with more attractive people.
Sure, the anonymity and exotic plays a part, but funny how it’s only poorer countries that have this attraction, isn’t it?
Young, attractive, funny young men willing to spend their day and have sex with a non attractive woman in her 40’s-50’s ? There certainly is a shortage of those essentially everywhere.
I’ve read a number of article about this, and watched a couple documentaries, and it seems there’s definitely is such a population who specialize in consorting with female tourists. And it’s not only european women. The last documentary I watched featured a canadian woman, for instance. By the way, a lot of women would have fallen for the kind of guys featured in this documentary. Young, attractive, good dancers, muscular, complimentary, self-confident… I doubt that this overweighted middle-aged canadian would have been able to pick up the same in a bar in Montreal.
Apparently, some of the women (still in this documentary…the articles didn’t go in so much details) actually fall in love with them, make plans and come back to spend their vacations with them. Which doesn’t mean that a lot of others don’t come just for fun.
Yeah, money is of course a factor, too.
Of course they do. But for a man to go out seeking a good looking exciting sex partner is considered perfectly normal. But when women do so, it is apparently the craziest, stupidest, most improbable idea people have ever heard. I can’t figure out why a man’s quest for a good girl to screw is considered a major quest in life, but a woman’s attempt at a quality lay is always met with “Well, why don’t you just pick up some guy from a bar.”
Well, umm, yeah. If the guy at the bar doesn’t make me come, no harm done in his mind. But if the guy from Gambia doesn’t make me come, he’s losing tommorow’s mealticket. Of course these women know (at the very least in the back of their minds- just like the men visiting Asia have some clue that their “girlfriends” arn’t really going to love them forever) that it’s about money. I don’t think they care as long as they are getting their money’s worth.
Umm…I was the one that stated several times that female sex tourists had the same motivation as males. I can’t figure out why you are arguing against me. My only caveat is that the ability to have any kind of sex you want without fear of social represial (which is far worse for women than men) is a factor. “Touring the continent” to have unconventional illicit sex is an old tradition. This is just a new variation.
Well, um, most rich women are from America, Europe or Australia. Most rich men are also from America, Europe, or Australia. Not a lot of chances for exoticm among the rich.
So it’d be better for the poor guys if the women didn’t do this so that the guys could starve, steal or work at some boring or backbreaking task, right? Instead of being paid to have sex with women a bit older and perhaps less attactive than they’d prefer?
Makes sense to me.