Do fights involving martial artists EVER unfold like in the movies? Ever see one?

In My Humble Opinion
1

Not until I saw a few professional kickboxing fights on TV back in the early 90s did I realize just how choreographed are martial arts flicks.

Lord, what a sloppy disappointment. Not to say I’d last 20 seconds against Segal or even Van Damme in their prime–much less Lee, Li, Norris, Lewis, et al.–but for too many years, I bought into the whole chop-socky fiction that top fighters are as efficient and overwhelming against opponents as depicted in the movies. Yes, I was stunningly naive.

In the (non-wired) movies, we see superhuman precision, overwhelming power and poetic savagery. But judging from what televised encounters suggest, these fights never go down like this. Not even close.

Okay, my exposure is limited, so I ask: Have you ever seen a real street fight go down between either: (1) two martial artists or (2) a martial artist and a non-practitioner? Did it unfold ANYTHING like depicted in the movies?

P.S. I’ve never seen an “ultimate fight.” Don’t wanna.

2

Nobody ever believes me when I tell them this: I witnessed a guy outside a 7-11 (trying) to be arrested by two police officers. The guy in question kicked the billy club out of one of the police officers hand, it flew up in the air, dude catches it and proceeds to beat the shit out of the two arresting officers. The squable didn’t last long at all as more police arrived at the scene, but still, it was one of the most bizzare things I had ever seen. Even to this day.

But I’d venture to say that was the exception and NOT the rule.

3

I have told this story before on this board, but it was a three or so years ago and it’s worth telling again especially since it applies to the OP.

I was not long out of high school and was with an acquaintance of mine named, let us say, Dan Dublett in a very tough portion of Denver.

He wanted to go to a bar (neither of us were old enough to drink) on Colfax Street for a drink. At the time it looked to be the toughest and seediest bar I had ever seen. I have been back in recent years and it still ranks in the top five or so and as an journalist who has spent time overseas, I have been to tough and seedy bars.

He dragged me in, and sure enough, almost immediately he got into a shouting match with a clearly drunk patron of the place (Dan was that kind of guy). I attempted to become invisible or at the very least to give the impression that I had no idea who this idiot was starting a fight in a strange bar.

In those days, Colorado had (it may still have for all I know) a law on the books that said if a person knew any martial arts he had to inform an opponent of the fact.

Dan did this by shouting the word “Karate” in a somewhat high-pitched voice and going into what might have been construed as a karate-type pose (either that or a weird sort of palsey that just suddenly struck). The drunk looked at him sort of clearing his vision, then looked at him again, picked up a nearby chair and shouted “chair” and hit Dan in the face with it. Since it wasn’t a break-away chair Dan went down and was out. The drunk went back to his drink and the bartender looked at me and said, “Kid, get him out of here,” nodding to Dan.

I did and left him on a bus bench about a block away. I have not seen Dan Dublett since. I have occasionally wondered what ever happened to him (not often mind you, but occasionally).

4

haha… hilarious story, TV time

Fights rarely unfold like you see them in the movies. In real life, those fights are short and brutal. In tournaments, with protective equipment, they tend to be the same way. A real fight is not nearly so obviously impressive and precise as what you see in movies.

5

I’ve been involved in martial arts (Oriental and otherwise) off and on for the better part of two decades, I’ve studied some actual “street fighting” tactics (mostly edge-weapon combat) and I’ve seen a few streetfights. (How’s that for qualifications?)

I don’t doubt that a Bruce Lee or Sonny Chiba could pull off those high spinning heel kicks and four-inch punches in a fight, but your average dojo-monkey who tries a roundhouse kick to the head or some fancy punch-lock is going to get wiped by a streetfighter who knows what he’s doing, or is just brutal enough to blast through whatever defenses your chop-socky master throws up. I’ve seen some pretty slick martial art take-downs in real fights, especially sweeps/reaps and some quick, neat, aikido or jujitsu work, but in general, most of the stuff you see in the films is just that–choreographed nonsense about as appropriate as creamed ham at a Bar Mitzvah.

Heck, most fights are two guys posing and trying to look for some way out that doesn’t involve risking a broken nose or a busted lip. When they do make contact they usually end up scampering about on the floor. You can tell the professional, though. He doesn’t talk, or banter, or posture. He just waits for the other guy to make a move, and then, a second later, he dusts off his hands and walks away, leaving the other guy clutching his knee in pain or doubled over and trying to breathe with a paralyzed diaphram. I’ve never seen a real fight last more than ten seconds past initial contact.

I’m not saying it doesn’t happen, but in a bar/street/in front of Wal-Mart I’ve never seen two experts face off. For that matter, anyone who is really a professional probably isn’t going to do that John Wayne crap unless he’s showing off for a woman; he’ll wait for an oppotunity where the situation is in his favor. You know, “The Chicago Way”, as David Mamet would have it.

That’s what I was taught in knifework, anyway. “One guy ends up in the ER, the other in a morgue. Do me a favor, kid; don’t get in a knife fight. And if you do, take him from behind, in silence, in the dark.”

Yessir.

Stranger

6

1st Dan Black Belt in Tang Soo Do here.

In the real world, I have only had to use my martial arts skills once and that situation only lasted about 5 seconds and was against somone who had no Martial Arts training.

When we practice free fighting in class, it doesn’t take long for one person to score on the other, so it stands to reason that in a real fight, where the mentality is, “It’s either him or me,” it wouldn’t take long at all to finish that fight.

7

If you did, however, your questions would be answered.

8

I went to school with a guy who was heavily into some Wing Chung(?) variety of martial arts when very few people did martial arts. Sometimes we would muck around sparring and he would start throwing punches and kicks that I couldn’t see coming. I would have to stop moving for fear that I was going to walk into one. It was awefully fast.

I saw him have 2 fights. One was with a gatecrasher at a party. He politely asked the guy to leave and led him out the front of the house but the gatecrasher was determined to have a fight. He was in a boxing pose following Dave around as Dave tried to placate him. As the guy started to throw the first punch Dave leaned back and kicked him in the head. The gatecrasher fell down like he had been shot.

The other fight was in a bar. Again Dave tried to placate the guy picking the fight and again the guy eventually threw a punch. Dave blocked it and grabbed the guys hair and smashed his head face-first into the bar. Again the fight was over instantly.

9

Reversing the question to “Do the movies ever show fights that unfold like real life?”, don’t ask’s story reminds me of the film “An Officer and a Gentleman.” In one scene, our hero, who grew up running the streets in Thailand, is being hassled by some locals in a bar. He tries to walk away and not fight, but one fellow won’t be dissuaded. As I recall, about two kicks later that fellow is on the ground, bloody and obviously not getting up soon. I don’t think the fight lasted more than 15 seconds, if that.

10

I’ll agree with most everyone here that real fights with experienced fighters happen very quickly and are over in seconds. This can be seen even in those “Extreme Fighting” matches. Two huge pumped up guys ready to go at it and it’s over with either one good punch or one guy gets the other in a hold and pumpels the other with rapid punches and he immediately has to give up.

Unexperienced fights you can see clips of on the interent. Two highschool kids, arms flailing, eventually grabbing and ripping the other guys shirt, and within 15 seconds both are panting out of breath.

11

From The Life Aquatic:

“I’m going to fight you, Steve.”

{Thwack!}

“You never say ‘I’m going to fight you, Steve.’ You just smile, act natural, and then you sucker punch.”

{Thwack!}
Stranger

12

sigh, I miss the NHL.

13

An Officer and a Gentlemen is a good example of a movie that at least nods to realistic fighting:

When the sergeant and Mayo fight, much of the action takes place on the ground. The stand-up action in this scene is a little bit too pretty and extended, but it’s one of the better fight scenes you’ll see in cinema.

Similarly with the finale of Lethal Weapon:

The Riggs-vs-Joshua fight.

I haven’t watched UFC in over a decade (it was back when Royce Gracie was winning), but I seem to remember that 99% of the Ultimate Fighting matches ended up on the ground, and were decided by grappling. Boxers and “hands and feet” martial artists usually got smoked when facing grappling experts. Is this still the case in more recent UFCs?

14

The only authentic, truly bad-ass street fighter I ever knew just loved it when someone would go into a martial arts stance. Generally speaking, they never knew what hit them.

15

UFC has arguably developed into a fighting style of its own, sort of a cross between Muay Thai (without elbows) and grappling. You have strikers who very much want to rely on their striking game and not go to the mat and grapplers who want to close the gap and go for a takedown as soon as it’s safe to do so, but most everybody has to have pretty strong game in both.

16

Also: as far as movies with realistic fighting sequences using martial arts…the scene with the fight between Jason Bourne (Matt Damon) and the last Treadstone agent in “The Bourne Supremacy,” while still not exactly realistic, was still pretty good at capturing the chaos, uncertainty, and intensity of a real fight as opposed to the usual wholly unrealistic balletic choreography associated with the average martial arts movie.

17

Saw a fight in a parking lot once, and plenty in high school. As said, generally it’s over in far less than a minute, and almost always ends on the ground if it’s between two untrained people.

If it’s a highly trained fighter against someone who’s not, it’s probably not going to go to the ground. The trained guy will know what he’s doing, do it, and walk away, leaving the untrained guy in serious hurt.

Or, it goes down like some of the fight scenes in Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon, but only if the fight starts in an ancient Chinese temple. With swords.

18

“Bruce Lee, you’re a mean drunk”

19

I’m a Shodan in Goju-Ryu Karate, and I’ve been telling people for a long time that being a blackbelt in Karate is an added tool, but it will not make up the difference between an average person and a tough, mean streetfighter. Your average black belt has no idea what it feels like fighting a real person seriously trying to hurt you. Suddenly there’s spit in your face, and someone is slamming your head into the concrete and biting your nose. And while you’re trying to gather your wits he’s now shifted gears and you’re getting a knee in the side of the head. And if you try to get him in one of those fancy UFC choke holds one of his buddies willl kick you in the head repeatedly until you stop.

The general rule in fighting is, the meanest person wins.
The second rule is, the biggest guy wins.
After that, it comes down to skill, strength, and conditioning.

All else being equal, Karate is an advantage. For instance, if you ever had to defend yourself against an equally scared non-fighter, the Karate willl make the difference.

It just won’t turn you into a killing machine. Probably the biggest gain I got from Karate was getting used to being hit, which would help me keep my composure in a real fight, physical conditioning (both cardio and things like calluses over the knuckles) which make you tougher, and perhaps confidence. The actual techniques were probably of limited use in a real street fight.

One exception is that you do learn to block punches. You do so by repeating the motion about 8 gazillion times until it becomes an instinctual reaction. So if someone swings at you, rather than involuntarily covering your head or something, you’ll move to block the punch. The problem is that this skill goes away rapidly if you aren’t constantly training. When I stopped actively training, I noticed a marked deterioration in my skills within a few months. There’s an old saying: " Karate is like boiling water. It requires constant heat to keep it going."

20

Heh, anyone want a good chuckle check THIS out.

Gotta love them drunks… :smiley: