the author expounds on how marriage has it’s own hard requirement’s and potential “traps” for gay people (and historically black people -women specifically) coming to the table to get married.
Just out of curiosity in the gay marriages (and especially gay male marriages) you have seen among your friends and associates is the implicit strict monogamy standard you see in most (not all) hetero marriages in effect or is there a different deal where strict monogamy is not a deal breaker?
To the best of my (perhaps incorrect) understanding in gay male relationships strict monogamy is not nearly as big a deal as in hetero or even lesbian relationships. Are married gay people interested in toeing the historical hetero monogamy line or are there different deals re what marriage means in effect between gay married couples?
I think Dan Savage calls his relationship “monogamish”.
I think its all part of the new movement where people want different kinds of relationships. Maybe a type where the vows have a renewal date? maybe a kind where either party can leave without any financial consequences.
I always thought that was the weirdest thing about gay marriage, since none of the gay people I’ve ever known were into monogamy even if they were in “committed” relationships. I don’t know any who have been legally married though, so it’s possible some take that as being more sacred or something, but I’d bet that’s a minority viewpoint.
It seems completely natural and unsurprising to me that, with sanctioned monogamy off the table for gay folk until recently, the standards and expectations of the culture should have evolved differently. (Of course there have always been committed monogamous gay couples, but they had to establish the terms for themselves.)
Now that equality is in the house, I expect norms to converge within a generation.
I’d say overall gay men may be more open to less strict monogamous rules. I know heterosexuals in marriages that operate outside the traditional standards as well.
I know men who are in monogamous marriages with no exceptions, I known men who are in monogamous marriages with some exceptions. I know men who are married but do not believe in monogamy. Exceptions might be they are open to threesomes or they think it’s ok to have fun outside the marriage on rare occasions.
I’m fine with people making whatever arrangements they and their partners will be happy with as long as everyone is honest about the parameters.
Thing is, with a same-sex relationship everything is up for negotiation. You can’t just fall into the cookie-cutter traditional relationship, because if you did that you’d be in an opposite-sex relationship.
So whatever sort of relationship you have, it’s one that the two of you custom-built for yourselves. Maybe that includes monogamy. Maybe it doesn’t. But it doesn’t presume monogamy the same way a traditional marriage did. And of course, traditional marriage–really traditional marriage–only presumed monogamy from the wife. Men were under no such restrictions.
I don’t know how often it gets prosecuted (supposedly very rarely) but adultery is still illegal in many U.S. states and engaging in it can have real legal implications. In Maryland for example, having sexual relations with anyone even while legally separated can and sometimes is a significant factor in the way that divorce proceedings are settled.
“Adultery with an opposite-sex partner means husband and wife will not have to wait to obtain a divorce. If Mr. Legally Separated’s wife pleads and proves adultery, divorce can be granted immediately. His adultery may be a factor in determining whether his wife has the right to alimony and in awarding custody of the children, if the judge determines that his adulterous behavior had a detrimental effect on them.”
Yeah well, I got burned by a dude who was asking me for marriage which included monoandry but not monowhateverisinrange (the burn wasn’t very bad because I found out about this condition before saying yes). A couple of weeks back, my brother had a bad cold; his fiancée went to his house with some frozen homemade broth to care for him. My cousin was in the hospital for some programmed surgery; her live-in boyfriend moved back to his mother’s house for the duration and didn’t visit her in the hospital; when he gets sick, he goes back to his mother’s.
Homo or hetero, the “rules of the game” should really be reviewed by any couple, and not only the financial side.
I don’t know who wrote that piece, and while it might be legally true, I wasn’t able to use it in either of my divorces. I was told that there is no good way to prove adultery, even if their car was left overnight at the other person’s house as they could have left out the back door and had someone else pick them up.
My first wife got an STD and there was nothing I could do except wait the full year to get divorced. My kids from my second marriage were talking about how their mother was going to get married and they were going to be in the wedding while I was still married to their mother and my lawyer told me no judge cares, people are allowed to have sex so don’t worry about it.
The laws in Maryland have recently changed as well. There is only a year wait now if there are kids.
I do think the younger ones coming up will have a different view of marriage than we do, my guess is they will start seeing it in the same light young heteros do, grow up/fall in love/get married. We kinda had to figure out the last part on our own.
One thing that makes this hard to guage is that people in gay relationships are more likely to admit to being in a nonstandard relationship than straight people. If you’re a MF couple, you can present the image of being the wholesome Hallmark family to uptight relatives, work, and traditional social circles while privately having a distinctly non-monogamous relationship. If you’re a MM or FF couple, you’re already a bunch of degenerates to the kind of people that want to see a ‘white picket fence and 2.5 kids,’ so there’s no benefit to presenting a more traditional front if that’s not the way you live. There are a LOT of married MF couples that are not strictly monogamous but keep it a secret from most people, and especially family.
In my experience, my gay circle doesn’t get hung up on stuff that doesn’t hurt people that straight people sometimes get hung up on, because social expectations don’t demand it of us… so we don’t care if someone sleeps with someone else on the first date, or sleeps with twenty people in a month, and we don’t talk about ‘losing our virginities’ because it’s fairly meaning less.
But monogamy for most is about trust and commitment, just as it is for straight folk.