Inspired by many previous threads and personal thought on the subject.
In modern American society, sex, love, and marriage are intimately tied in general society. You are expected to love and/or marry people you have sex with, especially in religious communities. To not do so is to be seen as, to put it most kindly, promiscuous. At worst, you’re a (man-)slut.
This is especially noticeable when the link between these things are severed. Promiscuity in general, as I said, is at least mildly frowned upon in general society. Non-married couples living together of any gender combination (but most especially heterosexual ones) are at least viewed as somewhat odd, especially the longer the arrangement goes on. Americans are generally expected to marry for love, to the point where other cultures’ traditions of arranged marriage are seen as wrong and oppressive. There’s been some backlash to all this in some sectors of the gay community, to the point where being monogamous and/or wanting children is seen as (as this poster in another thread put it, albeit in different words than I’m about to use) heteronormative, and thus undesirable, as though it were a form of brainwashing.
So, with all this in mind, I ask: what links should exist between sex, love, and marriage, if any? Is there a middle ground between anything goes and strict monogamy? Can/should there be? Feel free to comment on any side issues that are related, like the “heternormativity” of monogamy I mention above.
Every person and every relationship are unique, and if there’s any relation between sex, love and marriage, there are too many exceptions to make it meaningful.
And some of the attitudes that you attribute to society are somewhat antiquated.
Deep rooted cultural/religious beliefs aside, it seems to me that as contraceptive technology advances and STDs decline brought about by advances in medicine, the link between sex and love/marriage will weaken… (sex is fun. no consequences? let’s have fun.) That’s probably obvious, it’s already happening.
However, I don’t think sex will become purely entertainment. From a biological perspective, there is a real significance to sex: (call it sacred if you wish) it is the purpose of life in the sense that it is what we were optimized to do. Love is an expression of the same things also, on a different level, but very much similar.
Marriage is tricky, in the sense that it’s infinitely more complicated then love and sex. Our whole society (or at least a huge part of it) is built upon the idea of marriage. I’ll leave that to someone else :p.
(well, actually, how about marriage as a formal declaration if you will of love/sex?, I suppose the links that “should” exist depends on what is the purpose of marriage in society? Raising children? Slowing STDs? Some optimal complex support structure (go back 100 years, think housewives).
I am married -to the same person for 35 years - I still enjoy the flirtation and accept that it may be going on in the case of my ‘other half’ -there is enough trust to know that flirting is as far as it goes. Ps -is it coincidence that we both still ‘look after ourselves’ in terms of how we look and feel about our appearance?
That actually fits a common idea I’ve heard: That used to, one needed to have a relationship (horse) to have sex (carriage), but not the other way around. Modern times, with it’s advances in engineering (healthcare), you can now have either separately (car or “horseless carriage”). And you even have more varieties (truck, SUV, van, bus).
Personally I have become a traditionalist on this issue and I have decided that I will wait until marriage to have sex. I don’t think of this as an onerous restriction imposed from outside, but rather as a positive decision that will make my life better. In other words I believe that the greatest happiness in this area can be derived from having a lifelong monogamous romantic relationship with one person. Sleeping around either before or outside of marriage may bring short episodes of physical pleasure (or it may not), but I don’t think they outweigh the emotional turmoil. When I was young, I was informed through various sources–Robert Heinlein novels being the most memorable–that total sexual anarchy could work perfectly if we’d just drop all the guilt. Now I’ve grown up and I understand why that isn’t true.
I’m under no illusions about the chances of all of society turning back the clock on this issue; there’s never been society where everyone was monogamous. However, I do think it’s possible that some groups might go backward. Upper- and middle-class liberals have been promoting the idea of retro in a number of areas, from small businesses to organic farming to contra dancing, so who’s to say that sexual mores won’t be next?
Well, first of all, this isn’t nearly as true in modern American society as it used to be.
One thing you’re leaving out of the equation: children. Since sex can and does produce children, it behooves society to try to ensure that those children are taken care of. The most enjoyable and satisfying way of doing this is generally when the father, mother, and children all love each other and live together in relative harmony and cooperation, it a situation where all are committed to and responsible for one another.
Of course, in some cases (like when reliable birth control is used, or when the partners are the same sex), the possibility of producing pregnancy isn’t a factor, so there’s more to the question than just that.
Several of you sound surprise/dubious at the idea that non-married couples are viewed as odd. My SO and I have been living together for 18years now. We don’t hide the fact that we aren’t married, but we don’t randomly bring it up either. While it is accepted by our friends and family, it is also obvious that our neighbors, co-workers and business associates start from the assumption that we are married.
If it comes up soon after I meet someone, the conversation usually starts out a bit hostile/distrustful. “What is wrong with you that you haven’t gotten married?”
If the conversation happens after I’ve known someone for a while, it’s usually more of a curiousity. “What does your family think of it?”
I’ve lived with girls without marrying them. I know plenty of friends who do the same. I’ve never been treated with curiosity or hostility regarding our not being married. Not once.
I have, and I’ve been in this relationship for thirteen years. I still get the “Why aren’t you married?” Like it’s any of anyone’s business. And then I notice even though I answer as gently as possible “Just not ready or not sure it’s for us” people think I am somehow anti-marriage. I am not anti-marriage.
Ahh – but that has changed, too.
Most horses now are never harnessed to a carriage (or any vehicle), but are used exclusively for riding. Actually, riding may only be second – considering the number or retired horses & retired riders, the largest number of horses may be used just as pets or pasture decoration for their owners, not really used for any ‘work’ at all.
Aren’t you twenty? I don’t think anyone expects you to be married at this age. I didn’t start getting the questions until I was 25 or so and now I get them all the itme.
I find it interesting how often I get a response (always from people I’ve known quite a while and almost always women) of “Oh, I wish I’d done that” followed by comments that sound rather anti-marriage. (We’re not anti-marriage. We just haven’t bothered.)
These have given me the impression that there are a fair number of women who got married because it was expected of them. Not because they wanted to get married, but because it is the next step in the relationship, or because it is what good girls do.
It also leads me to believe that these ladies believe that my relationship with my SO is somehow fundamentally different from their marriage. It’s like they think that by not getting the piece of paper signed, my SO and I somehow are more like that couple on their third date, giddy with hormones and gazing into each others eyes. Sorry, but we still argue over who used the last toilet paper, we still steal the blankets from each other, and we still disagree over what color to paint the kitchen.
That’s true. I do know a few older couples that aren’t married and I haven’t heard anyone give them a hard time, but of course I can’t be aware of all that goes on in their lives.
I know they split up recently, but it was amusing to see how Susan Sarandon and Tim Robbins’ long-term relationship was treated by the press. They never knew quite what to make of it – 20+ years, some kids and no marriage. They couldn’t do their usual ‘Future wedding bells?’ rumor pieces, and they couldn’t write divorce in giant letters when they split.