Do I mention other salary offers to my boss?

[Blaster_Master]

@Kinthalis

I feel I’m extremely under paid for the work I’m doing, as illustrated by the fact that clients for whom I’ve done freelance jobs in the past, are now coming back offering me full-time positions for 30-45K more than what I’m making.

I made this mistake. I was horribly underpaid at my last job by a similar amount, but I was “comfortable”. Unfortunately, it meant that I wasn’t fully appreciated for what I was really doing, and it ended up biting me in the ass. That’s a significant amount to be underpaid, and you should fix it NOW.

However, I think that IF I were to move to a full time developer position at my current company, I’d be able to play a bigger part in the company overall, rather than being a developer cog in a larger software company working my way from the bottom (well almost the bottom).

Why is this important? Do you want to be a big fish in a small bond? If the company is underpaying and under appreciating you now, what makes you think they’ll appreciate you more if you can get the type of position you want? If you’re getting offers from other companies just straight up, imagine what you might get if you actively looked? Maybe you can find a company that will give you an important role AND more money. Polish up your resume and start it circulating.

So I’m going to ask my boss to setup a meeting with the partners. I want to speak to them about the possibilities of moving our various platforms forward with my help, unencumbered by my current position, and with a salary appropriate to the new one. The problem is that my boss doesn’t want me to leave his team. He’s fought tooth an nail for the current setup, where he dictates my schedule and “allows” me time to do development work - which results in me having no time for development work during business hours.

Of course your boss doesn’t want you to leave. You’re doing a ton of work and you’re doing it below market value. You’re making him look good. The question to ask isn’t about how it affects your boss, but how it affects your career. A boss only deserves your loyalty if he’s demonstrated that to you, which means going to bat to help you get a raise if you deserve it, telling his bosses you’re doing an awesome job, and taking steps to help further your career, even if that means you move out from under him. If he’s willing to stifle your career, or already is, he’s a bad supervisor and you shouldn’t feel guilty.

That said, I do highly recommend getting some offers you’re prepared to take IN writing. I’ve seen people do this kind of thing on a verbal offer, end up getting their bluff called, and then the verbal offer falls through. Make sure you know exactly what you want before you walk into the room, know what you’re going to ask for and what the minimum is you’re willing to accept before you walk away. And stick to your guns. Maybe you otherwise like this company and the work you do, so you’ll ask for 40k more, but you’d be willing to take 25k to stay in a place and with people you know. Don’t let them talk you down to 5-10k. And you can figure this out by comparing the offers you have on paper. You will not win a negotiation if you aren’t really willing to walk away.

And for that matter, make sure you can back up your claims about the work you’ve done. Make a list of the projects you’ve done that perhaps some of them know about but not all of them. Maybe they undervalue you just because of ignorance and going in there and showing them all this awesome work will encourage them to pay you more. Or maybe they’ll doubt you, and if you can’t cite the work and tell them who to talk to about these projects, it may just frustrate them.

Right now especially, just before another big project involving everything from data modeling to server side application development, to front end engineering, to UI design - is about to land on my desk, I want to make it clear to him that this is the way forward for me and that the current arrangement is NOT acceptable.

As others said, don’t mention the other offers unless you’re prepared to take them, and make sure you have them in writing. And don’t mention numbers. It doesn’t matter whether you’re leaving for 5k or 50k, all that matters is that you’re willing to walk unless they’re willing to negotiate. Telling them anything about the offer, other than that it exists, does nothing but weaken your hand. If you have an offer for 30k more and you ask for that, they’ll be pretty confident you’d be willing to take less than 30k because, why would you ask for the same amount unless you prefered to stay where you are, and thus that preference has a price and they can talk you down.

[Inigo_Montoya]

@Boyo_Jim

The more traditional approach is to get the new offer, meet immediately with the current boss and lay out what they need to do to keep you, and take the other job if your demands aren’t met.

I have known at least one manager who considered this technique to be ‘hostage-taking’ and he’d fire you in the next breath. His theory was, if you want more money just explain how much you want and what you’ve done to deserve it. If you make sense, you get the money & duties. But if you come in armed with an offer, you’ve already left so stop using his oxygen. He was a real peach.

However, he was also serious about the ‘ask & support’ approach and could be reasoned with to mutual benefit. So not a complete douche, just very intent on retaining power.

[Carryon]

One thing is painfully obvious from the OP post, you don’t like the company.

It’s time to leave.

You say:

However, I think that IF I were to move to a full time developer position at my current company, I’d be able to play a bigger part in the company overall, rather than being a developer cog in a larger software company working my way from the bottom (well almost the bottom).

I’m working full time at a position that the company higher ups don’t really value

What possibly makes you think moving to a new position will change thing. You will just be paid more and not valued and while the extra money, if any, will be nice, you’ll be back here in a year, saying you don’t like the job.

The bottom line is, you’re an “A employee” working at a “C level company.” Solution is to move on.

You owe it to yourself to find a job that not only pays you what your worth but respects not only your position but you as a person.

So save a lot of bother and start working on your resume and find a good job. You will be much happier in the long run.

[astro]

@The Great Sun Jester

I have known at least one manager who considered this technique to be ‘hostage-taking’ and he’d fire you in the next breath. His theory was, if you want more money just explain how much you want and what you’ve done to deserve it. If you make sense, you get the money & duties. But if you come in armed with an offer, you’ve already left so stop using his oxygen…

I am interested though. How *wrong *would he be *really *to make this judgement in most situations? It’s not a finesse approach but I think probability-wise he would be right more often than not re the attitude of the applicant in these negotiations.

[Isosleepy]

They will not give you the raise you’re looking for. If you’ve been ok with working for them for peanuts until now, it is rational for them to believe you will work some more for peanuts, maybe peanuts plus a little, but it won’t take peanuts + 40k.

So either you show them that you can in fact get +40k, and they will tell you goodbye and good luck. Or you don’t, in which case they will offer +2, or if you’re lucky + 8 or some such. Your only rational response is to take one of the other offers, and you leave. Your current employer is pissed, they “went out of their way” and you “threw it in their face”.

So instead do what you should have done, accept the other offer. Give your two week notice. Tell them given the massive pay differential, you really had no choice but to leave their wonderful company. Be gracious during the time you try to teach someone there some of the things you do.

The net effect is the same - you’re working for another company for more money. But in scenario 2, you leave on good terms, and having friends and people who speak well of you is always a good thing. In addition, there’s the non-zero chance that in a year or two they will come to you with the exact proposition you want to make them now except now it’s their idea, and they’re asking you. Which means they don’t feel forced, and you can ask for even more money.

[DrCube]

Don’t bother. You won’t get more than a 10% raise from a company you already work for. You have to take another offer to get a $45k pay raise. I don’t understand why you didn’t immediately take it. I like my job and they pay me well, but I’d jump ship in a heartbeat for a $45k raise.

[Inigo_Montoya]

@astro

I am interested though. How *wrong *would he be *really *to make this judgement in most situations? It’s not a finesse approach but I think probability-wise he would be right more often than not re the attitude of the applicant in these negotiations.

Oh I agree, I doubt he ever lost loyal talent with this approach, or promoted someone only to lose them in a year anyway. It’s just shockingly cold, if a rock solid business practice.

[Kent_Clark]

@astro

I am interested though. How *wrong *would he be *really *to make this judgement in most situations? It’s not a finesse approach but I think probability-wise he would be right more often than not re the attitude of the applicant in these negotiations.

I worked with two people (at different jobs with different bosses) who walked in saying “I have a better offer,” only to be told to go ahead and take it. Turned out they were trying to bluff their way into a raise and ended up on the street.

My advice, make sure you have a real, bonafide, official offer. . . and then accept it.

[Barkis_is_Willin]

Your awareness of the situation is obviously important. I had high confidence that my old employer would try to match a competing offer. And they did. Yes, I left the company 2 years later anyway, but it was very productive 2 years for both the company and me.
I would absolutely not try the same approach at my current job. It’s a totally different culture (not better or worse, just different) and I don’t see that flying.

[iamthewalrus_3]

@TroutMan

I would not mention the other offers at all. It labels you as a mercenary, ready to jump ship for more money at any time. Even if you get it at your current job, it will leave a bad taste in everyone’s mouth. (This is why at my company we never match an offer if someone threatens to leave. Come to me and tell me why you deserve more, and we can talk. Threaten me with a higher offer, and the relationship is soured no matter what.)

I think the framing of this interaction is very interesting. Mentioning another offer is “threatening” and labels you as a “mercenary”. As though asking to be paid what you’re worth were a violent act.

I like my job, and I feel appreciated in it. If I had a substantially higher offer elsewhere, I’d absolutely tell my manager all three things (though, probably not what the higher offer is). But, then, I have a good relationship with my manager. If I didn’t, I’d just write a bland but professional resignation letter thanking them for the experience and wishing them well after signing up for the other job.

[j666]

@iamthewalrus_3

I think the framing of this interaction is very interesting. Mentioning another offer is “threatening” and labels you as a “mercenary”. As though asking to be paid what you’re worth were a violent act.

I like my job, and I feel appreciated in it. If I had a substantially higher offer elsewhere, I’d absolutely tell my manager all three things (though, probably not what the higher offer is). But, then, I have a good relationship with my manager. If I didn’t, I’d just write a bland but professional resignation letter thanking them for the experience and wishing them well after signing up for the other job.

I wish we had a Like button.

I like my job enough that if I received an offer at a significantly hirer remuneration, I would absolutely give my company the opportunity to meet it. But I would, of course, take the higher offer if my current company decided I was of greater value to the other.

[edwardcoast]

@Kinthalis

The situation is this: I’m working full time at a position that the company higher ups don’t really value, but is still very needed and necessary (data analysis and office app development). On TOP of that I’m doing full stack development work, mostly on my own time. For some projects I’ve had to work nights and weekends non-stop for months. The results of my hard work are usually only utilized by a section of the company, so none of the partners know about ALL of the development work I’m doing. They only know about the parts I do for their team/projects.

I feel I’m extremely under paid for the work I’m doing, as illustrated by the fact that clients for whom I’ve done freelance jobs in the past, are now coming back offering me full-time positions for 30-45K more than what I’m making.

However, I think that IF I were to move to a full time developer position at my current company, I’d be able to play a bigger part in the company overall, rather than being a developer cog in a larger software company working my way from the bottom (well almost the bottom).

So I’m going to ask my boss to setup a meeting with the partners. I want to speak to them about the possibilities of moving our various platforms forward with my help, unencumbered by my current position, and with a salary appropriate to the new one. The problem is that my boss doesn’t want me to leave his team. He’s fought tooth an nail for the current setup, where he dictates my schedule and “allows” me time to do development work - which results in me having no time for development work during business hours.

Right now especially, just before another big project involving everything from data modeling to server side application development, to front end engineering, to UI design - is about to land on my desk, I want to make it clear to him that this is the way forward for me and that the current arrangement is NOT acceptable.

I thought maybe mentioning the current offers I’m being made might be a good idea, but then again, maybe it would backfire.

I would appreciate any advice!

I’ve worked in IT for many years. In my experience, if you want more money and/or a better position, you need to leave the company. Whatever you have been doing regardless of how well you may have been doing it, isn’t being appreciated and recognized where you are. Because if it were, you’d be telling us about the raise and/or new position you got which you believe is a direct result of these efforts.

My professional advice is to not go into the boss or anyone there in management and tell them about other companies or situations you could take which would pay you more and treat you better. Because they know from experience that employees who express that are really admitting they are stuck there, can’t leave, and want you to make their life better.

At your current job, you want a different position and/or a raise, then you should ask for it based on the merits of your skills, talents and contributions and fully express what you are capable of doing for them. Only then should they listen to what you have to say and deal with you in a professional manner. If that doesn’t get the results you want, then take another job. But don’t go in there talking about calls you are getting for better jobs, because if they that were true you’d be giving notice and accepting those jobs.