While this is true, it’s pretty obvious he’s not going to rock up to her and say “you’re fired for being pregnant”
If it were me, AND I wanted her gone (not neccessarily the case) I would do one of the following
a) eliminate her position
b) build a case for too many absences
c) Build a case for poor performance
d) If she were a salaried worker, and her contract included the appropriate language, start scheduling meetings that I knew were tough on her child care arrangements and the like.
And how many employers do you think are stupid enough to outright say that’s the reason they’re firing someone (or better yet, not hiring them in the first place)? In many states they don’t need any reason to fire you, and if they do they can always “find” one that’s less legally problematic.
Although it’ll make you a shitty employee for doing so, if you want the job you wouldn’t want to say anything.
Hm. My company hired at least one woman who was visibly pregnant at the time (and freely admitted it) under basically the philosophy bengangmo cites. I suspect they would be rather more annoyed if someone told them she was pregnant after starting work… they wouldn’t deny her maternity leave, I don’t think, or fire her, but they might not be as forgiving about it. (I took four months, and could probably have stretched it out to longer – they were quite nice to me and forgiving of the doctors visits and still forgiving of when I have to take off because of Childcare Issues.)
That being said, I don’t think my company is the norm.
tesseract, tell it to my sister. She’s a doctor, and she’s planning on going back to work a week after giving birth (even though legally she gets three months) because she can’t let her work sit for any longer. I told her she was crazy. She says all the doctors around her do it too. It sounds like a nightmare – she tells me about these doctors running down the hall for crazy ten-minute pumping sessions between patients.
And if she were hired and later told her employer she was pregnant, she is immediately a protected class member. Her employer may not be obligated to pay for her medical care, nor her maternity leave but is obligated to make reasonable accommodation. And that accommodation can extend after she gives birth.
a) Eliminate her position when? While she’s out giving birth? Of soon thereafter? Shouldn’t be difficult to establish a nexus and you would lose.
b) When do you start building a case for too many absences? As long as she remains with protected class status anything you might do may be held suspect.
c) See above with alleged poor performance.
d) Good one! All she needs to to to use your past record of meetings and how they changed just for her.
I’m not saying you might actually get rid of her. Unfortunately, many people are ignorant of their rights under law, and/or afraid of exercising them even when they do know them, for a variety of reasons. And don’t forget that while you might get rid of her and she doesn’t avail herself of the law, perhaps your work is sensitive to customers. Maybe her public boycott would draw just enough attention to hurt your business and any threats against her could backfire when she’s able to work the media against you as to attack a brand new mother and baby just trying to get by.
Not to be a downer, but miscarriages do happen, so you don’t know you need maternity leave.
How long of maternity leave are you planning? Two weeks? A year?
Legalities aside, isn’t it wrong to screw over an employer like this?
You know, 20 years ago, I might have given this more weight. And depending on the particular company, still might.
But the expectation of loyalty seems to have become much more of a one-way deal - you work hard, I fire at will.
Yeah, I think so. I should be upfront about the fact I’m a childless-by-choice-for-now-and-ever woman, there’s my biases laid bare.
Ostensibly they’re hiring someone because, well, they need someone to fill the position. I think it’s only professional to point out to them that in six months, they’re going to need another person to fulfill the position, for a little while at least.
Employers are not entitled to anything from an employee other than a full day’s work for a full day’s pay.
I would not tell. I applied for a job and got it when two months along during my first pregnancy. My employer was furious but there was nothing she could do about it. Her list of qualifications for the job was two pages long on Monster but the salary she offered was less than 35k. You get what you pay for.
This is so true going both ways. An employeer can get rid of any employee they want to, but they can not just walk in and say get out. A smart employee whould respond and demand his rights. But if the employeer is smart and follows the right steps they can get rid of any employee.
I worked with many a fellow employee that because HR did not know how to do their job or a supervisor would not do his job they stayed for years.
No. She wants the job, and she’s planning on going back after she takes a little time off to have a baby. So they’ll have to get a temp for a few months, and after that things will be back to normal. It’s a lot better for them to hire someone who really wants the job and is committed to it. She could end up working there for years, so it’s really just a minor inconvenience. It’s not good timing, but babies don’t always come at the perfect time.
At one of my previous jobs, they hired a very pregnant woman, so it’s not impossible. **FrancisCastle, **I agree with not telling them yet, especially if you’re not far enough along to start telling people who aren’t that close to you. If you wouldn’t tell you co-workers yet, I think it’s reasonable to not tell potential co-workers.
To answer a few questions I saw above:
Being pregnant won’t affect my job performance at all, there’s nothing physical involved.
The schedule is rotating days and shifts so I don’t see a problem scheduling doctor visits while I am off.
I planned on taking 4 to 6 weeks off after, less if I feel alright and have a sitter for the baby.
It’s a county job, so they do have more than 50 employees, if that makes a difference.
That’s your opinion. My opinion is that she’s screwing over the employer.
I would be *highly *pissed if I were the person hiring her.
off topic but is it legal to ask if the applicant has children as in small, always sick children?
Sorry to hijack the thread.
to the OP, wait until a job is offered and go with your instincts. Good luck and congrats.
Yes, I don’t understand why so many people act as if the prospective employer isn’t a human being, with struggles, financial needs, a family, and so on all in their own right. Not all employers are big faceless entities with bottomless pockets. Not telling them takes away their right to make an informed decision, one that could adversely affect their ability to do business. Putting that much training into an employee only to lose them and have to train someone all over again (or struggle through a series of possibly inept temps) could cause severe financial hardship for many companies.
It’s unkind at best to lie (by omission) at worst, it’s bordering on fraud, and is an extremely jerkish thing to do. That said, legally, AFAIK, the others are right, they would be hard pressed to be able to fire or deny you maternity leave.
I couldn’t agree more, CanvasShoes.
While the law may be on the OP’s side, it would still be asshole-ish for her to not inform her employer of her situation.
Like others have said, this sentiment would have carried more weight for me years ago. Both small businesses I’ve worked for (where I worked alongside the boss/business owner) were just as opportunistic as the shitty corps I’ve worked for, just in different ways. And in fact, I’d say their actions were even more shitty specifically because they would use this exact sentiment to get employees to excuse their actions. It sucks even more when it is a human being with struggles (blahblahblah) because you know them, so the betrayal is even more sleazy. I’ve personally experienced pay being shorted or my bills for things I bought being overcharged (both seeing if I’d notice or they could get away with it), hours “tweaked” so I’d stay at 39.5 hours in a week, payroll checks bounce and then be blamed (!) because it was my fault I didn’t cash them right away, and more.
Are all business owners like this? No. But at the end of the day, many (most?) are going to do anything they can to secure their future and business and the Employees S/He Sees as Family can fend for themselves. And trust me that it really saddens me to say this, because I am extremely empathetic, but attitudes like yours quoted above are fantastic in a perfect world… But in THIS world, all they do is further exploitation of employees for 98% of workers.
I don’t understand the argument about how this hurts the employer. If the OP got pregnant the day AFTER she got the job, the situation would be exactly the same for the employer. Lots of people get pregnant while employed, and employers work around it. Why is it any different if she is pregnant before getting hired? It’s the same result in the end.
Ok, let me rephrase my opinion, since perhaps I gave the wrong impression. I would not fire someone simply for being pregnant.
However - as an employer, I am not legally obligated to give you maternity leave unless you have worked for me for 12 months. You are not legally obligated to tell me you’re pregnant during the interview, and I am legally prohibited from asking specifically (although I can apparently still ask politically-correct questions that achieve the same purpose).
If you feel that all you have to do is meet your minimum legal obligation to me, I will simply meet my minimum legal obligation to you. Which means no maternity leave. You don’t like it? You can quit, or I’ll fire you when you don’t show up for work.
On the other hand, if you treat me like a human being and tell me ahead of time that you will be having a baby in 6 months and will need time off, we’ll see if we can work something out. But I’m not going to be nice or caring to you if you don’t extend the same courtesy to me. And the attitude of some people in this thread seems to be “fuck your employer, do the minimum amount required under the law.” Guess what you get back in return when you do that?
Being employeed by the county (a government job) they probably have printed imformation concerning both being preg. and applying for a new position within in the company. I would first start looking for real answers to your question’s by researching your company’s policies. Once you have your answer’s you will be compelled to follow them. Your employer will honor all the rights you have once you became preg. They will want to avoid any situation that might bring a law suit against them.
Wish you the best, and Congradulations!