And further (I can’t help myself), all the libs said that when we eliminated AA in California through proposition 209, it would be a disaster. It was going to be the “end of minority education in California” etc etc etc.
And of course, nothing could have been further from the truth. Minority enrollment in the California system remains as strong as ever. I would invite cites to the contrary, since the burden of proof is on those who make extrodanary claims…
Oh, and, I won’t go to a minority for medical treatment, because I want my Doctor to meet the highest standard, not the lowest. This is because of AA. Thanx libs.
But the question isn’t if all people are “created” equal, the question /problem that AA tries to solve is that people are treated unequal in our society, therefore AA gives a leg-up to those that start the race from farther down.
And, since AA is only for college admission, not the grades itself, the diploma is still on merit of work, not race. And the white kids from good neighborhoods will have more of an advantage than simply the income of their parents - all the networks because their parents already are old boys and that stuff, that’s not as easy available to minorities.
What about people who are denied the opportunity to show the merits of their work? And I guess, that only whites network. :rolleyes:
Woah. I’m not a fan of AA, but there’s some serious mis-information in those posts, Happy Wanderer.
Agreed. But every college I know of has some sort of “BRIDGE” program which offers extra study, tutors and remedial classes, which must be taken on top of a regular course load, to catch all of the lowest achievers up to speed, AA or not. I’m glad you found your community college at an appropriate level for your GED experience, but I don’t think one can fairly compare most community colleges with the best colleges in the country.
If we leave it on a purely merit based admissions, we’re going to end up with an even worse “dual-education” system based on class. How useful is it if the best college a res kid can aspire to is the local community college with little to no arts or theater program, outdated technical equipment, and the teachers who can’t get jobs at universitites? (Don’t get me wrong, I got my AA from a community college myself - but in half the classes, I knew more than the teachers, and I don’t kid myself that I got a great education. Passable, sure, but not great.)
This is just fucking ridiculous racism. 1. How do you know your “minority doctor” got into school because of AA? Maybe he’s fricken’ Michael Jordan’s kid, who attended the elite prep schools and aced his entrance exams. Hell, maybe he’s just an extremely bright kid from the ghetto, or maybe just an ordinary middle class schlub who worked hard to get into medical school and did damn well once he was there. Assuming that a minority doctor was a poor student is just basic racism. 2. How do you know your “majority doctor” wasn’t in the bottom of his class at med school? You don’t. To claim otherwise, again, is just simple racism.
I can only assume that statisticly, the minority is less qualified under AA. In fact, I go to a Dentist that is latino, and he does a good job, but I met him on the excellent recommendation that I got from friends. As far as the “dual” thing, how is it that the elimination of AA in California hasn’t resulted in a change in the racial makeup at the university system? And I will have you know that my CC had excellent facilites and an excellent theatre program as well as an excellent arts program. Harry Anderson is an alumnus of the theatre program at my CC (in fact I remember him on campus with a stupid hat and always two hot girls on his arm, that bastich) and I am sure there are many others who did well. I have seen a lot of theatre, and some of the best was presented at my beloved FJC. Many of the teachers were the VERY SAME ONES that taught down the street at Cal State, but we had smaller class sizes.
In any case, in the long run I don’t think it matters much where you go to school, wether Ivy League or State, it is what you do after you get into the job market that determines your success. Yeah, an Ivy League diploma might get you in the door someplace, but if the guy from State U has it on the ball, he will be promoted faster than the preppie. In the real world, it is what you can do, not where you got your sheepskin that counts.
/not a racist
//just a realist
You’re assuming that everyone who benefits from AA is unqualified to attend school. That’s a lie and a common misconception.
If anyone is whining, it’s you. Who cares about you and your worthless High School education? You might as well be talking about how as a kid you used to walk ten miles uphill in the snow everyday. And? It doesn’t mean that it’s wrong to drive a car. Likewise, just because you went to a community college blah, blah, blah, doesn’t mean that it’s wrong for someone else to take advantage of other opportunities. It doesn’t make you better than them.
And that works so well that AA students don’t have a higher dropout rate.
/not
So people who aren’t my race should be given opportunities that I don’t have? Yes it does mean that is wrong.
I got a “B” in General Chemistry, Physics, Calculus, etc because all the Vietnamese students talked in their language during exams. The instructer would try to proctor but all they would say in English is “Oh, we not talking abou tha”. Typicaly, I missed two questions, they missed one. The difference is, they all missed the SAME QUESTION WITH THE SAME WRONG ANSWER. They were never called on it, because of political correctness. So thanks for screwing the curve. Of course they were useless in lab…
/does not subscribe to the idea that orientals are smart
//only the jooz can claim teh genius!
People drop out for a number of reasons, not just academic. If you are a minority, there’s all kind of pressures that can lead to dropping out. One of them is constantly having to deal with ignorant, racially insensitive boneheaded classmates.
What about the women in your race? Have you forgotten that AA applies to them, too? In fact, white women have benefited from AA more than other fucking group! But why am I not surprised that you seem not to appreciate this?
I’m trying to figure out what this whining tangent has to do with AA.
No, I assume nothing. I am **stating **that AA allows people to attend schools they are unqualified for. That is an entirely different thing than saying they are unqualified to attend school. Not everyone needs to go to Yale. There are all kinds of schools. Some people might be better off in vocational schools. Do you realize that plumbers are very highly paid? And they don’t graduate with several hundred thousand dollars in student debt, either. Do you know that the overwhelming majority of DOCTORS, when asked if they had it to do all over again would make the same choices said NO!!! And the same doctors wouldn’t wish the profession on their children?
The old joke: Who lives in Malibu? Movies stars, and their plumbers.
Okay, first, your instructor is dumb to not stop students talking during the exam. This has nothing to with political correctness. Second, if they all got the same answer wrong, indicating cheating, your instructor was wrong not to call on that - BUT THAT DOESN’T HAVE ANYTHING TO DO WITH POLITICAL CORRECTNESS.
Third, what does “screwing the curve” mean, and how is it related to AA?
Are you aware that women are now the majority of college graduates? Why am I not surprised that you don’t even know this? I am now demanding AA for MEN baby!
liberals:facts::Superman:kryptonite
I guess you have never been in college. In many classes they grade on what is called “the curve” under which regime the grades are assigned based on the normal curve (I guess you are ignorant of statistics as well) and if a lot of people do well by cheating under such a system, the curve is distorted, penalizing those who were academicly honest. And the fact that NO INSTRUCTOR IN THE SCHOOL WOULD EVER CALL ANYONE ON THIS BLATANT CHEATING is due to POLITICAL CORRECTNESS.
Don’t tell me, your are a humanities major. :rolleyes:
Right. So notice how none of the stereotypical and statistical truths about community colleges I wrote is in fact true of your particular community college? Same goes for individual recipients of AA and minority doctors. Statistics, in case you missed this in school, tell us absolutely nothing about individuals, only groups.
And “a lot of people” *cannot *do well under a curved system. Only 2% of them can get A’s, no matter how much they cheat: that’s less than one student in each class with your lauded small class size. Guess you *do *need to review that statistics course.
Your reasons are now off-topic, in my opinion. Your earlier posts sounded as if you think that AA allows minorities unqualified to enter college (like in your post about minority doctors). Now you are saying that people enter schools they are unqualified for, because not everybody needs to go to Yale, but might be better off in a vocational school. BUT why does this apply only to minorities? Aren’t there lots of white middle-class students who go to Yale because Daddy is an old boy and rich enough that bad grades are overlooked? How many doctors that wouldn’t wish this on their children are minorities whose children then claim AA?
Really, if only people qualified for the academic side should enter college, you have to get rid of all the sport scholarships (I still think it’s ridicolus that people can attend college because they can play football, and nothing else), and you need to devise a test that measures academic performance - not rote learning like SAT, but skills that are important when studying - how to think, how to research, how to do labs …, and you would have to eliminate all other aspects of choosing students - like old boy networks, and letters of recommendation, and extra-curricular activities, and what-ever-else plays a role in admission.
You also assume - why, I don’t know - that students = young people can’t adapt and learn how to study in their first couple of years, even if they come from a low-score High School, or didn’t train by rote for the SAT.
Since you haven’t proposed any of this, your stance against AA looks one-sided.
In my country, people go to standard Advanced High Schools and finish with an exam, Abitur, that certifies they are able to study. Then, they apply to the university of their choice (there used to be a central disposition), for the subject they want*, and they are accepted. I think this makes more sense than having a university reject students for … what reasons, precisely?
*Some subjects, like medicine, have a “Numerus clausus” - your final exam grade must be better than a set minimum. Otherwise, the classes are too full - or people are too bad.
Depends on what school you’re talking about, genius. AA definitely helps women out in schools like my alma mater, Ga Tech, where the ratio of men to women was 3:1 back when I attended ('95).
Even in schools that are predominately female, AA helps women get into programs where they are present in low numbers, like the hard sciences.
You have no idea what you are talking about. You can assign grades under a cruve to any percentile. Since most (non humanities/social “science”) classes are graded under a curve, then how do you explain grade inflation? Please, tell me your major!
I learned everything that CC had to teach. I learned my art and my literature and my calculus in CC. I took darn near every course thay had, and at $15 a unit was glad to have it. I never earned a degree (though I could probably get a BA in Liberal Arts if I put all my units in a row, but I never bothered, I mean why, really) but it gave me all I needed. I bet my net worth blows away 98.62% of the dopers out there. So to all the whiners, whine away. That sort of behavior may pay off when you are in a Sociology class, but it doesn’t cut the mustard out here in the real world.
That’s right. I didn’t even go to University. Moreover, I live in another country.
I’m not ignorant of statistics, (I’m not particularly good at them, either, math is my weak side), but I’M IGNORANT of this system of grading on a curve, because we don’t do this in my country. It sounds absurdly stupid. Grades over here are given according to how much of the answers you got right, because the exams are to test what you know. How many others cheat is irrelevant.
I still don’t understand how you know that the curve grading system is due to political correctness, or why the instructor doesn’t call anybody on this because of political correctness, and simply not because he’s dumb. But then, maybe you call everything political correctness that you don’t like? Just because somebody dumb uses that term inapproriately doesn’t mean it really is political correctness.
No, I’m not. I’m not a major anything. But I did get my Abitur (final exam) at a natural science/math school.
Isn’t that kind of name-calling/stereotyping reserved for the pit?
Oh, wow. I bow down to your immense wisdom and superiority … not :rolleyes: . Esp. since you didn’t “bother” to get a degree … yeah, it has nothing to do with maybe not being able to?