BUT DEAR GOD! THEY USE A CROSS AS A SYMBOL! It doesn’t mean that you’re being treated any differently by them.
St. <Insert a name here>'s Hospital, set up by a church wouldn’t refuse you because you’re <insert religious or lack thereof> and you people who avoid conducting business with someone because of their beliefs would make you a very discriminatory person.
If you haven’t figured out by now that Der Trihs speaks for no one but himself, then there’s no point in continuing this discussion.
Once again, the OP says “Religious Displays”, not “Hey Christians, Jews, Muslims, shop here”
Once again: Speaking only for myself, I am not avoiding doing business with these people because of their beliefs, because I don’t know what their true beliefs are. I am avoiding doing business with them because in my experience those who emphatically proclaim their adherence to a code of ethics and honesty are the least likely to actually adhere to same.
Frankly, I’m glad when a business makes a big deal of their political stances.
That way, I can avoid giving any money to Dominos, for example. I’m all for that.
As a former cheerleader of TWO different religions, I must say that I “get it” as to why a business owner might display a religious symbol in their advertisement. While there may be some that use it purely as a marketing tool, I think there are a great many that are simply proud to be whatever they are.
But nowadays I’d be like the majority here: I’d count the display of any religious symbol in an advertisement or sign as a negative (even for my own religion). I know these are contradictory sentiments, but my sense of propriety has changed over the years. I think it is just as inappopriate to advertise “proud Republican” or “faithful Democrat” as it is to advertise one’s religious affiliation, and would avoid such businesses (even if I agreed with their affiliation).
Personal displays or a simple sign or symbol in the shop doesn’t bother me at all.
There are several businesses locally that prominently display “American owned” on their signs. One is a 200-store grocery chain, the other a well-known donut shop franchise. Even though I’m as white and American as can be, these signs very much turn me away.
Well, yeah, but in Muslim countries, they use a crescent, and in other non-majority-Christian countries, they use a “crystal,” so they recognize that the use of a Christian symbol is likely to send a message that might not be well received by everyone.
This whole discussion is about what the message is when a religious symbol is used in advertising or promoting a business. In such a use, it is clearly intended to mean something. And the point some of us here are making is that “Hey, Christians, shop here” is not only a logical interpretation, but a very likely one. For you to step in and say "It doesn’t mean ‘Hey, Christians, shop here,’ because it doesn’t actually use the words ‘Hey, Christians, shop here’ is pretty rich.
The more I think about this issue, the more appropriate I think the comparison I made above to ceremonial deism is.
Defenders of ceremonial deism argue that the God mentions don’t actually mean anything, yet they will defend to the death those same God mentions. If the Jesus fish doesn’t have a meaning, why is it there? And if it does have a meaning, what is it, specifically?
Woah, woah, woah. No one, not a single person, not even Der Trihs, has said that the government should be involved here. So why the “freedom of speech” protestation? Of course it’s free speech, and (as I think you know) I and most of us support the rights of the business owners to paint whatever they want on their trucks. The question in the OP wasn’t whether or not they should be legally allowed or prohibited from over religious displays, but whether or not it personally biased us (me) for or against a business. Brains boiling is not a violation of free speech. Free speech doesn’t mean I have to like or support what you say, it just means I won’t interfere with your saying it. Calling the boss and letting him know what I think isn’t interfering - it’s exercising *my *free speech.
But since you bring it up, what’s your own personal bias for or against a business with a pro-choice message blazoned on a commercial vehicle (assuming it’s not the vehicle of a medical provider)? Theoretically, of course, since I don’t think there is such a thing - at least, I’ve never seen one. I’ve only seen bumper stickers on private cars.
I do like to see “American owned” and “Made in the USA from American parts” or similar blazons. I like to shop locally and support the people around me whenever I can. That means my neighborhood first, my city second, my state third and my country fourth. What’s the problem there? It’s a sign the Iraqi-born American citizen can put up with just as much honesty as the white man. If I’m seeing two roughly identical items and one has a Made in the USA sticker, then that’s the one I’ll buy.
I guess this is why I assume obviously identified religious businesses are seeking the business of those who support them. Why else self-identify?
So under your logic, I shouldn’t trust Black people as I’ve had 2 of them steal my bikes (So in my experience, 100% of personal theft has occured by Blacks) and every American is a warmonger because so many of your houses display the Stars and Stripes.
Seriously, can’t you guys admit that you’re making generalizations and stereotyping people?
Expression of self?
We all know that the Gay Prides were created in order to get more people to try homosexuality… right?
Yep, because the last time lots of people wearing red crosses on their clothing dropped in on the middle east, the results were less than happy for all involved.
The Red Cross is only very peripherally related to the Christian cross. It’s an inversion of the colors of the Swiss flag, chosen to honor Henri Dunant, the Swiss writer who helped spark the international Red Cross movement in the 1840’s. If anyone cares.
I don’t generally mind a little religious something or other on a product. A cross here, a verse there, a note about how such-and-such is manufactured by the monks of wherever - -that’s al fine with me. In fact, I adore the religious ravings on the Dr. Bronner’s soap bottles so much that I don’t buy the big refills. I want new labels on my soap bottles, for good tub reading.
However, services are different. Living, as I do, in the heart (or something) of the Religious Industrial Complex, I may have to flip several pages in a service section of the yellow pages before I come to an ad that does not display the Fishy of Sanctimony. This is a new fairly new bias, but after eight years of being back here, I have noticed a significant and direct correlation between fishy display and general nincompoopery. I’d like to have my lawn service know how to operate a lawn mower. I want my dry cleaners to focus on cleaning clothes. I want a plumber to focus on plumbing. I definitely want my kids’ gymnastics schools and such to focus on developing the particular skill set they claim expertise in. Witnessing seems to take away from general effectiveness, and bugs the hell out of me. Also, I was propositioned by the owner of our last Xtian lawn service – propositioned in a slightly menacing way. It’s a bias verging on bigotry, I know, but it is serving me well and it doesn’t seem too out of order with the free market.
I don’t mind a cross or other sorta passive statement of faith in a small store (I would have missed out on a lot of amazing Italian groceries when I lived in St. Louis if it did), but the fishy will keep me from darkening the store’s door. It’s bad enough to have someone come a-witnessing to my door, but to wander deliberately into their own clearly marked lair…I don’t need that.
Tabby
That’s exactly what the people using Jesus fish for advertising want me to do, only they think that I’m going to make generalizations and stereotypes in their favor.
Of course, you’re right. Nobody wants to express themselves anymore. I guess the Jesus fish my neighbours have on their car was placed there by them because they have shares in Dodge and therefore want more Christians to buy a Dodge Caravan so that they will become richer off of it.
Why didn’t I see it sooner? :smack:
Absolutely, and that’s what we all should do if a business does something or makes a statement that we don’t like. What I don’t get is the anger at the message, or at the business. I recently went to a bookstore in town that offers to donate a certain percentage of your transaction to local charities. When I looked at their list, I didn’t care for any of the charities, and a couple of them I was very much opposed to. I didn’t get angry at the business, I just decided not to do business with them, and told them why.
As I said, I wouldn’t get angry…I am well aware that a large portion of the population is pro-choice, and if I got pissed off everytime I saw a pro-choice message…no matter who was making it…I probably would have had a stroke by now. I may not patronize the business, but in the case of a trucking company, I’m not likely to, anyway. I doubt I would call to complain, again, because I simply consider it their right to display such a message if they want to.
That I can’t answer. I do the same thing with you with the made in the USA thing, but relgious affiliations I don’t care much about one way or another.
Will bible-thumpers leave me alone if I do?
<ahem> I admit to making generalizations and stereotyping people. Thank you.
And I don’t like Christianity
kifler, darling…what the fuck are you talking about? You’re the only one fixated on private displays of religion on private, non-business property; the rest of us aren’t interested in that right now. If you want to talk about private displays, then maybe another thread would be the better place.
Ah, I see now. Yeah, I’m pretty much with you on that one. My brain simmers a little at pro-life propaganda, but as we’ve already established, that’s more a political message than a religious one. (I do actually know atheist pro-lifers; while there’s a large overlap between religious and pro-life, the terms are not close to synonymous.)
I think you are very confused.
An ad isn’t about self-expression. An ad is about getting customers.