Do quick-lube, oil-change joints lie about problems with cars?

Factual Questions
1

I have had my 1995 Nissan XE pickup truck (4 cyl) for 5 years. I guess I’ve taken it in 20-25 times for an oil change to two different quick-lube places. Keeoing that I mind, I submit the following:

  1. About a dozen times, I have been told that one of my rear brake lights is out. What are the odds of this happening so frequently? I thought a brakelight would last a couple of years. How do I know these guys aren’t unscrewing the light bulb a little bit (they are out of my eye-shot when performing the oil change)?

It is entirely up to me whether or not to have the quick-lube guys change the light. The brake-light change adds only about $5.00 to the bill. Though I am often suspicious, maybe every other time it is called to my attention, I approve the repair.

  1. The last time I got my oil changed, they told me my “rear differential fluid” was low. What the heck is “rear differential fluid”? That really raised a red flag in my mind. Was this a scam?

The fix for that cost $25.00. I rejected it at hand pending further investigation.

…

So, fellow Dopers, do any of you have the straight dope on scams these oil-change places may or may not be running?

2

If you are suspicious that they are diagnosing the same non-existent problem… multiple times… then have a friend stand behind your truck and verify your brake lights work before you head over there next time. While it does seem suspicious, brake light bulbs do burn out peridically or there could be an electrical problem causing it to burn out more frequently than normal…

Regarding “rear differential fluid”, yes, there is such a thing as a rear differential (the part of the drive train that drives the rear axels and rear wheels IIRC) and it could in fact be low on fluid. I would have asked them to show you why they think it’s low and assuming they didn’t drain it before they showed you they are probably telling you the truth. If it happens again you should check for leaks since having it run dry could be a real problem!

My experience has been that these guys (get ready for THE gross generalization) are generally honest and don’t hit you with bogus charges since they know that eventually you will get pissed off and go somewhere else. They don’t make that much money on oil changes so they need you to keep coming back over and over.

Also, you should talk to the manager about your concerns and see what he says… you’ll probably get a free oil change out of it at least!

3

My favorite part of taking the MR2 to Jiffy Lube was when they told me “we checked your power steering fluid, that was okay.” Uh, the MR2 didn’t have power steering. I wonder what they would have done if it ended up being low?

4

“t is entirely up to me whether or not to have the quick-lube guys change the light. The brake-light
change adds only about $5.00 to the bill.”

Wow, that is cheap.

So, you ever thought of maybe letting them show you it needs to be done? You know, let them show ya what they are talking about. Let them show you fluid dipsticks. Let em press the pedal when you look at your lights. What are they doing looking at your lights when you want an oil change anyway?

5

This may be comparing apples to oranges, so I wouldn’t take this too far. However, it may be something to check up on.

Ford recommends that the differential fluid on their Rangers be changed every 100,000 miles, and not even checked in between those intervals unless (a) a leak or other problem is suspected, or (b) the differential has been submerged in water.

My own speculation is that they feel that the failure rate of the differentials is so low that pre-emptive checks of the fluid level are an unnecessary risk. You’re more likely to cause a problem by opening it up to check the fluid level than you are to find an existing problem.

Again, this is for Fords, not Nissans, so the situation may be totally different. I’d advise checking the maintenance schedule in your Owner’s Manual and seeing what it says.

I’d second the recommendation to check your brake lights on your own from time to time. If one of them is burning out repeatedly, then there’s probably some kind of trouble with the electrical system - this can happen. If you’ve verified that they all work prior to taking the truck in for an oil change, you can confidently call BS on them if they announce that one has failed. Then, find another place to get your oil changed. :frowning:

6

I don’t think any reputable chain will out-and-out lie to you, but all businesses are naturally interested in getting your business. This is why they often have “recommended” services which are not necessary.

As for the brake light, it does sound like an electrical problem. Why would they risk losing your repeat business by lying about a potential $5 sale?

7

Mechanics lie!?!?

8

Keep in mind that if you do check a differential after it has been submerged it probably will be overfull.
This is because as the oil and differential parts cool water is sucked in through the wheel seals.

9

I should point out that you can replace your own brake light bulb yourself, it’s easy, and should cost you about $2.

The last time I tried to use a quick-lube quick oil change place, I phoned them up and asked if I could come in today for just an oil change. They said no, I could make an appointment for about 2 weeks from now. That sounded ridiculous, this place advertised a 15 minute oil change or it was free. They retorted, “what do you think, that we have a whole staff of mechanics just sitting around waiting for YOU to come in?” I said, well, YES, that’s what your chain is advertising.

10

Thanks, Brad_d – it just so happens that my truck has passed the 91,000 mile mark. Further resarch is certainly warranted.

Chas, no such problems where I live – getting served as soon as one drives up is the norm.

Cyn, it’s funny you make that remark. A lot of my cynicism stems from:

(a) my own ignorance about automobiles and

(b) the time I was told at the Nissan dealership that my brakes needed to be replaced right then & there. Because I couldn’t afford the service that day, I declined the mechanic’s advice, thinking I’d come back for brake service within a month.

Well, that month became fourteen months! If my brake problem was so dire, how could I driven an additional year before heard any brake squeaking? Once the squeaking started, I got the brake shoes replaced. A little too late, some may say – but I’ve suffered no ill effects, and the shoe replacement was in May 2000. If I were really flirting with disaster, shouldn’t that disaster have happeneed?

That brakes incident really made me mistrust the motives of mechanics. Or are mechanics just WAY more careful about their vehicles than the ignorant schmoe like me?

11

This makes me think of the time my roommate had one of those places (they did emmission checks and more too) told him his VW bus brake “adjusters” showed that he needed new brakes.

He then went to his “VW Repair for Idiots” book, and couldn’t find any reference to “adjusters”. He eventually went over there and told them right off. They threw him out, but I too suspect they were pushing for unnecessary work.

I’d be suspicious of stuff that doesn’t seem to make much sense, and maybe buy the repair manual and do a check on that differential fluid very carefully yourself. If it’s not low, I’d really raise some trouble over there.

12

Brake adjusters, huh? :rolleyes: Those idiots will try anything. It’s POSSIBLE they were talking about his wear indicators, but unlikely.

Re: bulb, next time check your bulbs before going in. Tell them to leave that damn differential alone. If you were losing fluid, I’m sure you’d know it.

I am surprised, however, that a dealership tried to pull unnecessary work bullshit on someone. They’re normally pretty good about being honest. They’re so overpriced they don’t need to lie to rake in the dough! $400 for a damn $10 switch? I don’t think so!!!

–Tim

13

I don’t know about the Jiffy Lube guys, but dealership mechanics are often encouraged by cirumstance to, um, pad their estimates, shall we say.

The reason is most mechanical operations have a set hourly rate. For example, changing the oil might rate ten minutes. A good mechanic can do it in five, while he’s doing something else. Gravy.

On the other hand, many jobs are rated completely unrealisticly. The times are usually based on the average time it takes a factory-selected, completely certified mechanic provided with a quarter of a million dollars worth of specialized tools to do the job. Or, as one of my former co-workers once described it, “a goddamned F1 pit crew.”

The estimated time is often completely unrealistic because of the following reasons:

  1. A good dealership will have a complete set of the necessary tools–one set of them. Therefore, if two jobs requiring the same tool are being done simultaneously, one must wait.

  2. There is no provision for deviationand delay, i.e. stripped screw heads and bolts, dirt, debris, unforeseen damage due to unreported accidents, etc.

  3. Parts allocation. You strip, say, an Opel down to the pistons and discover you need a new set of rings. But the rings are only available on allocation from Europe. You’ve got to wait two weeks. That means you have to put the vehicle back together until the parts arrive. You can’t just leave all the pieces sitting around on your workbench. Then you have to take it apart again when you have it.

All of these factors encourage mechanics to find other operations to do to compensate for their lost time and effort. That includes changing the oil and other fluids, changing belts and filters, and especially replacing brakes and rotors–one of the easiest and most lucrative operations. It’s not inherently dishonest; an honest mechanic will only fix that which needs to be fixed, but sometimes the shade-tree mechanic can head off such unexpected charges by taking care of things before going to have the car examined.

There is a side benefit to such a practice. Mechanics admire few things more than a well-maintained car, and they’ll treat you with more respect if you have one.

By the way, handy is right; “show me” is a perfectly acceptable request and is often eagerly accepted.

14

I doubt that anybody could do it in five minutes and I really doubt that you would see a mechanic doing it in a busy shop. Likely to be done by an unskilled helper or an apprentice.

If you see this in your dealership shop, go somewhere else.Mechanics have their own tools. There are of course expensive specialty tools that the dealership may provide.

Not likely. The parts probably would be gathered together and placed on the frame where the engine was and the hood closed. Or anywhere else that the parts would be undisturbed.

15

It occurs to me (though I don’t know) that the profit margin may well be higher on switching out a bulb than on the oil changes. They keep those oil changes really really cheap to bring in business. The $5 bulb change, could easily equal $3 profit, labor and parts included. I would be really suprised if they made much more than that on a $15 oil change.

16

From my experience, Jiffy Lubes don’t change bulbs. They will install wiper blades however. The one I go to wouldn’t do it for me until I asked even though they were obviously falling apart.

A lot of problems can be avoided by looking at the owner’s manual. Jiffy Lube recommends that a lot of the fluids be replaced much sooner than the manufacturer’s specs.

17

Yes, mechanics will occasionally lie. That’s nothing against mechanics in general, it’s simply a statement. Pick any group, from priests to janitors, and you’ll find the occasional “bad seed”.

Now, the Evil Mechanic will typically only shoot for the mechanically unenlightened customer. Which is about 85% of drivers, in my experience.

I have worked in oil-change places before. It’s quite common to give the car a quickie check to find things like burned-out bulbs or other tidbits. I doubt they’d have “unscrewed” it a “little”, since most automotive bulbs are a bayonet-type mount. Meaning they are held in by a quarter-turn locking arrangement. And even then, the mechanic might have to take a screwdriver to the lens to GET to the bulb, or at least open the trunk and toy with the socket (often hidden under carpets and such.)

Chances are, if it was out, it was actually burned out. The other thing is, was it a good bulb the last time it was replaced? I used to buy cheapie K-Mart bulbs, but had to replace two or three a year. Now I buy GE bulbs from a quality supplier and I haven’t had a bulb pop in two years.

Diff fluid basically doesn’t go bad. The ring and pinion are soaked in heavy oil constantly. Wear is very low, and there are no added contaminants as in engine oil. (As in unburned fuels, carbonized oil, dust, etc.) Typically the only thing to watch out for in a diff is leakage at the axleshaft ends, or around the driveshaft pinion.
It’s easy to check- there’s usually a plug on the side or back. Pop it open, and the fluid level should be pretty close to the bottom of the plug hole. If it’s a little low, dribble in some 90-wt gear oil and plug it up again.

As for brake adjusters, ALL drum brakes- which would include most VW buses- have adjusters. This compensates for pad wear (disc brakes self-compensate.) Yes, in some cars one can simply look at the adjuster and see the general health of the pads.

WEAR indicators are different- these are typically little metal tabs that rub the rotor or drum, and “squeak” to let you know it’s time to replace the pads. In other words, it’s an audiable signal, not a visual. (If you could see the tab, you can see the pad itself just as easily.)

Being a hands-on kind of guy myself, I strongly recommend that people get a manual for their car, whatever the make or model, and learn to do simple maintenence themselves. It’s easy, doesn’t take long, and can save you money. It’s also an excellent way to possibly catch small problems before they become big ones.

If you have a floor jack, jackstands and an old cat-litter pan, oil changes are easy. Bulb replacements (except for some deep in the dash) are even easier. Check yer own darn fluids, especially if you have an old beater. :smiley:

18

I drove a small company truck with sealed ball joints and when I took it into a quick lube place, they asked me if I wanted grease ports installed to lube the joints and I said, sure. We changed the oil every 3000 miles, and we used the same place and they lubed the joints for a few bucks extra, until we got our own mechanic.

One day, when he had the truck up on a lift, I curiously was looking everything on the underside, and noticed no lube ports so I asked him if there were any. He said no, but he could install some. I agreed, watched him install them and fumed about the previous quick lube place charging us for not only installing them, but several times charging us for ball joint lube that they never installed!