Tuesday I made sort of a spicy tomato-based Bolognese sauce with ground beef and lots of both seasonal ripe chiles and crumbled-up dry chiles, since the whole family likes the spice. It turned out really good, and pretty darn spicy, and my family enjoyed it. But I made an unusually large batch and had a lot left over. Then I stupidly left the leftovers on the counter to cool for too long, about 5 hours.
I almost started another “is this still good” thread, but then decided screw it, I’ll take my chances. I’m the only one who seems to eat leftovers around here, and it was too good of a batch and too much to waste. So I’ve just had leftovers for lunch for the second straight day and no ill effects so far. Which made me wonder the title question. My guess is no, I just got lucky. Plus, I don’t think 5 hours at room temp is all that long, despite what those nerdlingers at the FDA might recommend
I have seen reports of studies on some hot peppers having anti-bacterial properties. Haven’t seen a conclusive study. I recall something that proposed eating hot peppers leads to more bacteria resistant in the digestive tract, don’t recall the details or if that had even been tested.
The chemical which gives chiles their spicy feeling is capsaicin. Aside from any antibacterial properties of the pepper itself, the chemical capsaicin has antibacterial properties. But as you mention, I suspect the sauce would be fine regardless of it was spicy or not. The 5 hours on the counter doesn’t seem all that long to me. Plus, I suspect you reheated it when you made leftovers, which would help kill bacteria.
You sound like me. I wouldn’t risk serving the leftovers to unsuspecting others, but I’d definitely eat them myself, especially if the container was covered while it was sitting out.
The way I look at it, it’s starting out pretty sterile (assuming it came off I nice long period of simmering on the stove). It’s gonna take a while for microbes to infiltrate and multiply. They might get a toe-hold in 5 hours, but won’t have grown a big enough colony to sicken anyone with a decent immune system. (Plus, I have the proverbial cast-iron stomach when it comes to food poisoning; I’ve only had it a handful of times in decades of eating widely in developing countries.)
Well, 5 hours is probably plenty of time for something to get started but for someone without other issues, it’s probably (empirically even!) safe enough. And the Nerdlingers have to account for a much wider degree of baseline health assumptions. And I’m sure the acids and other factors in the sauce contributed. Heck I think one it’s clear that a lot of our store bought (not that yours was) goods are so safe even after far longer exposures is that most of them are packed with enough sodium to make many bacteria weep tears of blood!
Buuuut… even if it’s just you, or anyone else reading the thread later, it’s probably a good idea to thoroughly re-cook time and temp wise any leftovers with that risk. Same way when I make homemade stock that I cool more slowly (normally outside in December after Thanksgiving with no spice, minimal salt and acid) - it’s hot long enough to worry me a tiny, tiny bit. So at least 2 minutes back at a boil before it goes into anything I’d serve anyone else. I wouldn’t want to do that for even a robust tomato sauce, but heating it longer and lower than just what it takes to get it hot is not a bad idea at all.
Still on the gripping hand, if it’s just you, and you’re healthy, meh, we take bigger risks all the time. So do what’s easy for you. Most likely the worst that would happen is a day in the loo.
ETA - it’s also less of a big deal the next day, but if it had been in the fridge for 2-3 days? Then, even with low temps, you need to be a lot more careful.
tomatoes (and tomato sauce) are notoriously low ph fruit - its basically “self-pickleing” … so any bacteria will have a hard time growing there
5 hours … I’d not even give it 2nd thoughts … even 24 hourse is not a problem …
I have “forgotten” tomato sauce before for a couple of days (possibly a week) - and if it werent for the white fur it grew … from a bacterial pov it would still have been ok …
again, not much bacteria growing in vinegar, pickles or coca-cola, either - which share the low-ph with tomato sauce…
Cuisines like Indian are spicy because of the limited possibilities for refrigeration in different parts of the world. The chemicals in hot peppers definitely do slow the growth of bacteria.
I’ve seen this claimed often. And I can find studies showing in vitro effects. More for turmeric and oregano than capsaicin FWIW. What I cannot find and am extremely skeptical about is any evidence that any of these spices have any significant effect in the concentrations of real food dishes.
Acidity yes.
Personally I’d also have eaten the leftovers without a thought. But if some food was out long enough for me to be concerned I’d be no less concerned because it was spicy.
If you have some source that actually demonstrates that food spiced at consumption levels with any spice is safer to eat left out longer I’d be interested!
It sticks in my mind that generally foods should either be kept hot, or refrigerated immediately. It’s the “in between” temperatures/time where the nasties find most favorable conditions to live long and prosper.
Another related benefit, sort of, a steady diet of hot peppers has been shown to create an environment that is prohibitive of intestinal parasite attachment.
I’ve read that, in the case of botulism, heating kills the bacteria and neutralizes the toxins. The information came from reliable sources about a year ago (I’ve posted here about it in the past), but I can’t seem to find it now. Maybe it’s no longer considered sound advice.
A lot of spices affect bacterial counts. This is known from testing. It is also clear adding spices to food often makes food stay edible for longer periods of time, sometimes significantly so. So it’s not just a science fair experiment but has real world value. (You could PubMed articles on cloves, chilies or coriander but you do it.)
However, that value also depends on the local bacteria in the area of interest, spice concentration and many other things. So it is hard to make a food decision based on spice alone. I wouldn’t choose to eat anything that smells or tastes off, even slightly (after washing and cutting away obvious questionable parts). But people lived many thousands of years under unsanitary conditions and the body is well adapted to dealing with those.
Natural antimicrobials can be found in raw vegetables, fruits, and herbs/spices. Fruits and vegetables (garlic, pepper, onion, cabbage, and guava), seeds and leaves (olive leaves, parsley, caraway, nutmeg, fennel, and grape seeds), and herbs and spices (marjoram, basil, oregano, rosemary, thyme, sage, clove, and cardamom) all include natural plant-derived chemicals. Essential oils (Eos) and extracts derived from plants have long been used as food additives to improve taste and impart distinct flavors, and extend the shelf life of foods by preventing rancidity and controlling microbiological contamination. Indeed, these chemicals can limit or impede the growth of harmful bacteria because of their high presence of secondary metabolites, primarily phenolic compounds, iso-flavonoids, terpenes, ketones, aliphatic alcohols, acids, and aldehydes
Can you point out where in the article you linked to there are any studies reviewed that demonstrate that, in the level of spice used for traditional recipes, any of these spices prolong food safety to any degree?
I can’t find it there. Maybe I’m missing it?
I do see lots of talk about the prospects of coming with systems that can use food derived compounds for those purposes. And using in vitro studies and in vivo ones at higher levels as cause to suggest that research could be promising …
Heating food will destroy botulism toxins and any active botulism organisms, but not the spores.
However, botulism is not likely to be the active pathogen in an unsealed pot of tomato-based sauce - botulism hates acidity and oxygen. Other foodborne pathogens have different properties to botulism though.
