I’ve heard that Einstein thought in German, then translated his thoughts into English when he was living in the States. What about people who speak only sign language? Do they think in sign language? When I think (which is pretty rare) I tend to do so “verbally”; that is, if I’m reasoning through a problem, for example, I “speak” to myself inside my head. From what I’ve read, this is to some extent universal in humans. (See, e.g. If a Lion Could Talk.) Does a congenitally deaf person who only speaks, let’s say, American Sign Language, imagine handmovements when reasoning through a problem?
Most congenitally deaf people can read, so I kinda doubt it.
But, ultra, what about a child who hasn’t learn to read, yet? I’ve read articles about teaching babies to sign before they learn to speak, so I would assume that deaf children learn to sign long before they learn to read, right?
I also wonder about this. It seems odd that a person would picture sign language or even picture written words when they think. But, even beyond not knowing how words are pronounced, does a congenitally deaf person really even understand the concept of pronunciation? I mean, without hearing, how can you ever really understand how spoken language works?
I hope that isn’t taken as insulting. Having never been born deaf, I’m not sure that I can really understand how that works.
I’m no expert on this. In fact, I don’t even know how you would teach a deaf child to read.
What makes you think English speakers think in English?
I’ve known a couple of deaf people - deaf from brith or shortly thereafter, as well as deaf later in life.
Those who lose their hearing very early and learn Sign as their first language do, indeed, think in Sign. It only seems odd because we’re so used to think of language and hearing together. And (I’m told) it isn’t so much visualizing the signs as imagining how it would feel to make them. At least, that was one answer. I suspect this does vary. Just as I can imagine hearing words, or imagine speaking words.
In fact, hearing children of deaf parents who learn Sign first (and that does happen) also think in Sign (as reported to me by a Sign interpreter born with normal hearing to deaf parents), even if they become fluent in spoken language later (and usually deaf parents with hearing children go to some effort to make sure their hearing children are exposed to the spoken word so they can learn it).
As for teaching a deaf child to read… well, would it be any harder than teaching someone to read Chinese? (Chinese characters may be pronounced, but they are not phonetic). In my high school I had a classmate who had been deaf since (at minimum) two months after birth who not only read and wrote fluent English but also French and Spanish.
I worked for awhile with a woman who went deaf in her 20’s. After 25 years of being deaf, she told me that she could think in either English OR Sign.
Sign may be an unusual language in being visual, but it’s a real language and just as complex and full of nuances as any other human language.
Deaf people can be taught pronunciation (my high school classmate could speak intelligbly, although you could tell there was something not quite right, a sort of “deaf accent”) so they can comprehend it - but it has to be delibrately taught. You can teach people blind from birth to draw circles, squares, and boxes, even letters and their own name, but it’s never going to be quite like a seeing person’s drawing/writing, and again, it has to be delibrately taught. The physical mechanisms to produce speech are present in the deaf, but there’s no natural feedback on how to use it. When the deaf are taught to speak, there’s a hearing person in the room supplying the feedback their ears can’t give them. Not and easy or simple process.
In fact, my coworker (boss, actually) who was deaf was trying to learn Italian so she could communicate better with her in-laws. The written language wasn’t any more of a problem than usual, but speaking it was quite an effort. She required one-on-one tutoring in spoken Italian, with a very patient teacher.
Great question. I’m intrigued - maybe Smashed Ice Cream can answer it.
Smashed Ice Cream, I hope that doesn’t offend you that I singled you out! 
Actually, being Deaf myself, I would tend to believe they think in pictures. Sign language, is, after all, just pictures done with the body.
Please pay especial attention to the report from Nicaragua.
Thanks for the info, Monty.
Do the blind think in Braille?
[Obligatory risqué hijack]
Only when their thoughts are sexually oriented!
[/Obligatory risqué hijack]
No, because ordinarily what one uses for thinking is auditory “visualizations” of the words within one’s head, and blind people can, in general, hear quite as well as others.
Braille is not a distinct language – it’s a means of transcribing written English, French, etc., into raised marks in patterns that can be read by a blind person.
Sign, on the other hand, is a language – the grammar and syntax involved in saying “If the cat had not jumped on the table and knocked the casserole on the floor, we’d be having turkey Florentine for dinner instead of hot dogs and beans” is as different from the English in Sign as it would be in German or Aramaic. (Perhaps people speaking other languages, including someone fluent in Sign, might translate that statement and then give the literal English rendering of how the sentence is structured in the other language. I’d love to see how a complex sentence of that sort would be rendered in Sign, if someone wants to take the time to describe the signage involved in expressing it.)
Happy to oblige, ultrafilter. As a matter of fact, I’m kind of a missionary for SignWriting (yes, that’s the way it’s spelled). BTW, you can download from that site a free program called SignWriter.
ultra: If you’d like some entertainment, check out www.gebaerdenschrift.de where the symbols are animated.
I wonder if a different part of the brain is stimulated when a “verbal thinker” is thinking through a problem vs. a “sign thinker”.
Thanks for the post.
Groan!!
One day a deaf man came into my store to order some drinks. He motioned for a paper and pen to write his order down for me.
You know how when you’re trying to spell something, you’ll write it a couple of times to see what looks better? Or say it slowly to try to remember? This guy paused at a word (“macchiato” IIRC, which most of my coworkers can’t spell either), and signed it to himself to remember the spelling.
It struck me as fascinating and very cool. I think I mangled the “thank you” I tried to sign after I gave him his drinks, though.
Check out Seeing Voices by Oliver Sacks, for the answer to some of your questions.
I don’t think we always think in spoken language. I am a filmmaker, and when I am thinking about my projects, I think in images and rhythms. I have to “translate” these into English when I tell people about my projects. There is more than just imagining stuff- I do stuff like work out problems in images. Surely everyone thinks in a visual (or other) language at some point.
I don’t think in sign language - I think in thinking, which isn’t really a language to me at all. I recall another pretty long, interesting thread similar to this one (IIRC about dreaming), but I’m way too lazy to search for it. It’s hard to explain, but if you think about it, you really don’t think in any language - it’s just a matter of having a thought, idea, emotion, whatever; the information you got to come up with a thought was aquired visually, or audibly, or scent/touch/whatever sense. I remember using the example that I’m sitting here, look at the room and realize that it’s somewhat messy. I don’t think “Gee-this-room-is-a-mess-and-I-should-clean-it” as individual words - the whole idea spontaneously arrived in my head as I looked at the pile of socks on the floor. *(My gawd I hope that made any sense whatsoever.)
(Miss Xanax, no worries. 
)
I learned to read by reading picture books, I believe. I was able to read at a very young age, but didn’t speak until about age 4. I also think I mentioned before that I loathe Signwriting. But - in defense of Monty, some people think it’s a great and wonderful thing. I just don’t happen to be one of them. I do appreciate that it has uses and does come in handy (NO PUN MEANT) in a lot of situations. I just don’t get it myself at all.
This is a really interesting discussion. And I just realized something, and I have to throw in my two cents.
I’m a programmer, and have been so since I was oh… 10 or so. And I just realized that when I’m approaching a programming problem, or occaisionally, just a tough ‘real-life’ problem, I actually think in code. Very wierd. It’s mainly visual, but lots of the keywords/functions/etc. are english-language based, so it’s not too far of a stretch from my ‘normal’ thinking. But I see lots of curly braces in my head
Agreed. I wasn’t sure how to word the OP because I know that alot of problems I address are not handled “verbally” by my mind. Map reading and rotating objects in space are two examples off the top of my head. I’ve also been lead to understand that people have different styles; I think I may have a “verbal” style of thinking, for example, such as when I’m map reading and it is getting confusing I do have to “speak” to myself to work it out.
Thanks for the book reference, btw.
Yes, it makes perfect sense…I think. It’s really hard to react because I’m trying to imagine a similar situation and I can’t do it without "meta"thinking which may mess up the original deal. Maybe I don’t understand. This morning I got up and went straight to the computer and messed around on the internet for a couple of hours. After that time I felt greasy and my mouth felt nasty, and then, IIRC, I thought “Man, I gotta brush my teeth.” I mean, I actually thought those words–a coherent (but inelegant) sentence. Ditto for needing a shower. I don’t know if the idea pops into my head and then I express it to myself in “words”, or if there is a vague something in there and it only takes form when “words” are put to it… Does that make any sense? Do you just go and start picking up socks, or do you think “this is a mess, I should clean it” before you do, like I did with brushing my teeth? Can anybody else say what goes through their heads in similar situations? I’m curious.
I’m gonna lose sleep over this. :shrug: