Ok, it’s impossible to read an animal’s mind, but as I’m watching a show about horse racing, I can’t help but wonder if the horses know that they’re supposed to cross the finish line before the others. Is there any evidence that they understand the idea of a race?
I don’t know about greyhounds, but you can’t make a horse run to win. Hell, if they don’t want to, you can’t even make them leave the starting gate.
On CANTER, an organization that places Thoroughbred race horses in non-racing sport homes, a frequent reason given for the horse’s sale is “doesn’t wan’t to run” or “doesn’t like racing.”
Do they “know” they are racing? It’s pretty hard to say what a horse knows. But those as run well, seem to enjoy something about it.
Pure speculation:
Wild horses run as a defense mechanism…they flee danger. If you are running from danger, it is bad to be at the back close to the danger you are in flight from. So I guess that horses may have an instinct to not be last, but maybe less instinct to be first, because you might also be running toward an unknown danger.
Wolves run to catch prey. The front dog gets first crack at the prey. Observing dogs tells me that being in front is also a status thing. Mushers claim that the following dogs actually pull harder than the lead dog. I think dogs really want to win.
I can’t speak for horses, but I’ve heard that some dogs doing agility trials get upset with their handlers if the handler messes up the cues (pointing towards the wrong end of a tunnel, etc). I’m not sure that necessarily implies an understanding that there’s a competition going on, but if it’s true, they do seem to recognize the significance of what they’re doing on some level.
Isn’t racing how wild horses establish dominance?
Uh, what? No. Where in the world did you get that idea?
Stallions gain a band of mares by fighting for them.
Some horses are naturally competitive and dominant–they like to boss and intimidate other horses, and do NOT like being passed by them when running around because it means the other “subordinate” dared bypass THEM.
I had a mini, all 36" and 250lbs of her, who had my 900lb Arabian completely under her control. I’d turn them out together, and the mini would gallop and get really pissed (pinned ears, kicking out as she passed, and so on) that her much larger partner could outrun her. The mini’s solution? She learned to cheat. She’d cut corners when they’d gallop around so she’d cut in front. My speeding Arabian had to slam on her brakes or face the mini-wrath of a domineering red-headed minimare.
Some very successful racehorses were known for being intimidating of their competitors, or even playing with them a bit. Alysheba, the 1987 Kentucky Derby winner and 1988 Horse of the Year, didn’t like to win by much.; he preferred to keep his nearest rivals right in his sights. When he got the lead in the 1988 Breeder’s Cup Classic, his ears went up and he relaxed…until Seeking the Gold came up on his flank. Then, 'Sheba pinned his ears and bolted forward such that it knocked his jockey (Chris McCarron) slightly off balance. He won, keeping the younger colt just behind him, perhaps just to mess with him a bit.
Kona Gold, 2000 Champion Sprinter, was also known for pinning those ears to the point they practically disappeared whenever his rivals got to close. Kona (owned by a friend of mine) was a playful gelding, smart and well-mannered, but when it came to racing, he was all “OH NO YOU DI’N’T!” When they retired him (at age 9!), after a bit of let-down relaxation time they took him to a friend’s ranch where he learned to cut cattle. I found that hysterical, because I knew Kona would make a good cutting horse. Now, instead of fellow racehorses, he had cattle to boss around and dominate. Heh.
I have been told that Thoroughbreds race each other in pastures for the hell of it - is that true?
Zsofia, not just thoroughbreds–pretty much all breeds will race around for fun in the pasture, though racing breeds are probably more likely to do it more often and more intensely. More dominant horses will want to lead as well as make other horses move out of their way; that’s just part of herd dynamics.
This is a very famous, Eclipse-award winning photo of Great Prospector biting (called “savaging” in racehorses) Golden Derby when he grew frustrated that he couldn’t pass him in their heated stretch duel in the 1980 Tremont Stakes at Belmont Park. He wanted to win, dammit, and more importantly, he didn’t want that OTHER horse to have the audacity to pass him.
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And, here’s a personal video of my Arabian and mini from 3 years ago. Firefly, the mini, is a dominant little girl–but the problem is, she’s also lazy and averse to much exercise. Ferrana, the Arabian, is a submissive weenie–who also has a lot of energy and loves to run. This poses a problem for Firefly. She attempts to solve this by kicking out at Ana at the beginning (after hubby’s Jaws impression), then bucking and kicking out both hind legs at her a little further in. Firefly tries to chase and dominate Ana, but her little legs and lazy disposition and the large size of the arena made that too much work. She tries cutting Ana off, but eventually figures let the big mare run all she wants…she is still the boss, and she knows Ana knows this. Heh.
Ever walk up or down stairs with a dog? It takes careful training to get there first. Also doorways. Do they know or care we are betting on them? I doubt it.
Here’s another video of the girls galloping around at play, taken a few months later and in daylight. You can see Firefly use her knowledge of geometry (heh) to cut Ana off a few times, and then switch to trying to direct Ana where Firefly feels she should go (herding her, like a dog–horses do this to each other to assert herd rank). Note, also, how Ana follows Firefly (submissive weenie, remember?), and stops (even though she’d rather run and play more) when Firefly decides it’s time to stop this running nonsense and eat.
Note: Typically, it is not recommended that a full-sized horse and a mini share turnout, as the size difference can cause dangerous interactions if the two horses get into typical equine arguments. However, in this case, Ana is so submissive, and Firefly so dominant, it worked.
This makes me miss my little red-headed brat of a minimare, heh. She’s now a therapy horse at Canyon Acres.
Hard to say if they knew they were racing, but my dad’s sled dogs would get very, very excited before a race - far more so than before a training run. The more agressive wheel dogs seemed out and out hysterical with excitement.
They would also get very upset if another team tried to pass them during a race, to the point of snapping at the other team and making “want to fight?” threats.
They weren’t allowed to actually stop and fight, of course.
can those no-racing horses that sell for $1000 still be used to train people to ride a horse? I guess I am amazed at the low price for an adult, rideable horse here.
I don’t think they understand competition in theory, or the importance of crossing the finish line first, but I’m pretty sure both species have the capacity to really enjoy running fast, and will deliberately try to do so faster than others.
My dogs ‘race’ all the time and so do horses I have seen together at pasture. It’s definitely a dominance thing, and deliberate competition (a lot of times there are sore losers!).
There’s a lot of individual different racing styles in horses. Most notable are those that will fight their jockeys to try to stay in first place, even if it exhausts them (a lot of the most famous racehorses in history are those who combined this preference with killer speed, winning their races by going ‘wire to wire’), and those who prefer to coast around last place until they make their explosive move in the last third of the race, getting around 10+ horses to win.
Oh, absolutely. In the horse world, we call those OTTBs–Off Track ThoroughBreds. In fact, more often than not out here, that’s where TBs seen in shows, hunter/jumper barns, and pet barns come from. I wouldn’t say they are commonly used as lesson horses to teach adults to ride, but some certainly are.
The 26yro TB gelding at my barn was bred to race, as was his chestnut mare companion. Both only ran 2-3 times and didn’t amount to much, so were rehomed; they’ve had the same owner now for 12+ years. Another mare that used to be at my barn was a gorgeous daughter of a $10,000 stud–that means they paid $10,000 just to have their mare impregnated by him–and a granddaughter of Seeking the Gold, who stood for over $100,000 at the time. Gorgeous as she was, she had zero interest in racing, and then had fertility issues (she would have made a nice breeding mare) so my friend got her. She is now an excellent riding horse, showing dressage and hunter under saddle, and is happy in her new line of work (and play).
And Hello Again, you are evil for posting those links. I don’t go over to CANTER’s webpage for a reason. Now Mi Lu Lu is saying, “Awww, look at how cute I am!” Her shoulder is a bit straight and her rump a bit in need of filling, but she has nice legs and her face is too cute.
This brings up OP 's question of anthropomorphism again. The vast majority of dogs-(not including pugs and the like) were bred to do something active or be prepared to be active. But some “chase” behaviors are not first-in-line takes all.
Many herding dogs run at highest speeds – even while playing and keeping up with a bunch of other fast dogs–slightly behind and to the side of first place or third place–to flank them and ultimately “win the race.”
Leo
They can certainly be superior competition horses. Nirvana II, ridden in the Atlanta Olympics, was purchased off the track for $600.
And “rideable” is a bit of an overstatement. Race horses don’t know nothing about nothing when they come off the track. They are only slightly ahead of a horse the same age who has never worn a saddle. Eventually, they can make as good lesson horses as any breed.
Many a time, growing up, if I and my dog Bear were on the same floor, and I happened to be walking past the staircase, I’d take a step or two up or down the stairs, just to send him zipping to the other end of the flight.