I have recently “discovered” the Pogues. I am blown away. Shane McGowan is more than a brilliant writer (particularly lyricist), he is a genius–I know, I know, an overused, devalued term. But he is, IMO.
I know their output is (sadly) not as prolific as some in the Hall. But what a ride. McGowan is a true visionary rock-and-roller, however you classify his music.
I’ll add more if the thread produces any feedback, but I’ve already tipped my hand. Any other opinions? Does anyone care?
I love the Pogues. They’re one of my all-time favorite bands, and McGowan really is a lyricist on par with the greatest in rock and popular music: Dylan, Cohen, Waits, Lennon and McCartney at their best. Rum, Sodomy, and the Lash is more than a fun Friday evening around here; it’s probably their best album ever.
That said, I don’t have a lot of respect for or interest in the Rock & Roll Hall of Fame, I wouldn’t count on them inducting the Pogues, and it wouldn’t make a difference to me whether they got in or not. Don’t they induct artists based on record sales or longevity? It seems to me they tend to favor the safest choices: the overplayed “classics” and boring “dad-rock” bands worshipped by Baby Boomers.
Actually, I tend to agree with that. Whether or not they’re inducted, they’ll still be great. But it’s still interesting to me as discussion, for some reason. I don’t know why. (“Do the Pistols belong in the HoF?” was a prior question I’ve posed to friends. Of course, the answer is, “yes.”)
Shane is a genius lyricist, although he occasionally gets credited with writing songs that the Pogues were only covering. I only saw them live once, and Shane (out of his gourd as usual) used a metal beer tray to keep time with the rest of the band - by bashing it against the side of his head.
No fan of the Pogues is going to give a monkeys about the rock n roll hall of fame. But as far as the Pogues being a band for the ages then I’d say yes. MacGowan is hands down the best lyricist I have ever heard, I can’t think of anyone, any band, any songwriter who comes close.
Slight weakness to the Pogues is the albums tended to have a lot of filler I thought. Its been ages since I listened to them regularly, but they were always a band that had absolute knock-out songs, rather than consistent quality in an album. If I fall from grace with God is maybe the exception, probably their masterpiece for me.
I have noticed that if I really love a band, they are pretty much guaranteed to not make the hall of fame (The Clash being the only exception I can think of off the top of my head.)
I thought that strongly influencing other bands would be all it took (how many copycat bands have The Pogues inspired? I can think of at least two obvious ones). But seeing as how XTC and Husker Du (two of my favorite bands) don’t have a chance in hell either…the opinions of fellow musicians is obviously not a consideration.
It seems that selling millions of records is all that matters.
I didn’t notice too much filler on Rum Sodomy and the Lash either. These are two of the few albums I can listen to without wanting to skip any songs.
It is strong from top to bottom. Suggestion to others: read the lyrics sometime. As excellently as they work as lyrics, they’ll still seem like poetry when divorced from the tunes.
But as brilliant as his lyrics are, I don’t want to shortchange the music. Costello’s production is perfect–a balance of raw energy and clever breaks.
If they are inducted, the only thing better than hearing them perform at the ceremony would be hearing that McGowan missed because he was too drunk to make it. I don’t wish that on him, and it’s not lost on me that he has a problem. But it would be as perfect as the Pistols’ f@#$ you as a response, so don’t fault me for wishing it.
Since you’re not eligible until 25 years have passed since the first recording, what else would you expect to find other than classics?
The Pogues won’t be eligible for several more years. That whole era of music is yet not eligible or just becoming eligible. Wait a decade before you start complaining.
Two more years, actually. (Their first release was in 1984.) So it’s not too early to start the lobbying.
The Sex Pistols only had one real album. And they belong in the HoF. And so do the Pogues, I think. For similar, if not identical, reasons.
The Sex Pistols are are in the Hall of Fame.
If you thought they weren’t, that pretty much ends the argument. Find out the facts first.
Um, that was my point. I was very much aware of that fact. I was responding to your post…
…which was in response to this one…
The Pistols, who are indeed in the Hall, are hardly overplayed, dad-rock “classics.” Right? And neither are the Pogues.
They should be, but I doubt they will get in. Not nearly mainstream enough.
They rock harder than just about anybody, and a live show is a treat not to be missed (before it’s too late).
And I think Spider Stacey came up with the “beer tray as percussion instrument” thing during either the recording of “Fiesta” or the video shoot.
I love the Pogues’ more traditional tunes, say, up through Rum, Sodomy, and the Lash. But I have the feeling that the lyrics credited to MacGowan are twists on existing folk songs, and God knows the music is, even though it’s also credited to Shane MacGowan.
Do I think they’ll get into the Hall of Fame? Still too many more-famous, putatively more-influential acts ahead of them. Do I care? Not a whit.
Huh. I find Rum, Sodomy & The Lash to be a bit over-produced myself. I don’t think that Costello and the Pogues were well-suited (well, except for one of them 
). If I Should Fall From Grace With God is, IMHO, a superior album.
The lyrics? What do you base that feeling on? MacGowan is generally recognized as a brilliant lyricist.
I thought Spider Stacey played the beer tray as percussion instrument on Red Roses for Me. If you’ve ever seen old videos of them, their original drummer plays standing up with only two drums (two snares? or a snare and a tom?) and anything cymbol-like is actually Spider beating himself in the head. Here’s a video of Waxie’s dargle.
I’ll let you know after I give it several more listenings. But I will say now that I find a categorization of Rum, Sodomy & the Lash as over-produced as curious indeed. It sounds extremely organic to me, as if it could have been “produced” in a pub in nineteenth-century Dublin. Between fistfights. I exaggerate a bit, I suppose. But over-produced? Hmm. I could play all the basic arrangements, without losing much, with two other guys, I think.
I love that song. And, Red, if you hadn’t shown up I’d have been disappointed. 