Re this thread on Ralph Nader it’s assumed/surmised by some that Nader is effectively “asexual”.
Some people assume “asexual” like “bisexual” really means that a person is effectively gay but in denial. Without getting into the particulars of Nader’s non-sex life, do people exist who are effectively truly asexual? And by that I don’t mean they’ve made decision not to be sexual, or that they have some sort of depression of psychological conflict, I mean they have absolutely NO sexual desire at all for either sex.
There are people who claim to be such and, sexuality being what it is, I’m inclined to believe them. Anyone who claims they’re lying should have some evidence.
I wouldn’t be surprised if a small (WAG, less than 1%) of people are asexual…I’ve known a few that seemed that way. One in particular expressed her concern that she might be gay, then months later said, “No, that’s not it.” I think she would have been relieved to know she was gay because then at least she would have fit in with a known group.
There’s a kind of Catch-22 here because a lack of interest in sex is (IIRC) a symptom of depression. Depression could cause a lack of interest, but not being interested could cause depression if the person feels like a total outcast.
Heard about a person once, said person had an unfortunate birth defect that resulted in that person having no sexual organs whatsoever. So yes, apparently, you can have a totally asexual human being.
That said, I think most self-identified asexuals are physically normal male or female, but for whatever reason just aren’t interested in sex (actually, that AVEN website probably explains it better). I see no reason for such people NOT to exist, as human sexuality is so varied.
My husband and I had a friend who was a really nice guy, I doubt if he was depressed, who seemed to us to be asexual. It was a shame really, because he was nice-looking, reliably employed, and so on. He was very low-key about almost everything and once told my husband that no, he was not interested much in either men or women in an intimate way.
While lack of interest in sex may by a symptom of depression, I’d say that it would be a bit too far to say ALL people with no interest in sex are depressed.
This isn’t the Pit, so I’ll just say that there’s somewhere in particular, on your body, where you can shove this sentence, and let you figure out the specifics. Since this is GQ, I’ll play along: Do you have a reputable cite for your assertion that bisexuality is just unenlightened gayness, or do you just assume that I can’t enjoy the company of both genders because it helps you sleep at night somehow?
Moderator Warning
Phrasing the sentiment euphemistically doesn’t mean that it’s acceptable for GQ. Don’t do this again.
And you can dial the rest of the attack on astro’s statements down several notches as well.
Colibri
General Questions Moderator
There are people in this world who hate Jews. What does that make me?
(If that question made no sense, look at your post again. If that question did make sense to you, look at your understanding of the mention-use distinction.)
Geez, Hostile Dialect, hostile much? Are you really questioning that some people think that asexuals and bisexuals are simply gay people in denial? I can assure you there are plenty that do, whether or not the OP is one of them (which I see no reason to believe s/he is). Even my beloved Joss Whedon lost a ton of respect in my eyes when he made Willow unambiguously “gay” despite her previous romantic and sexual interest in men.
I have had periods of time, usually but not always simultaneous with depressive episode, where I am truly asexual. I’ve also had periods of time when I’m horny as a rhino in heat and most decidedly not asexual. I figure if the outlying ends of the bell curve of libido exist in me, however temporarily, there’s got to be someone out there stuck at one end or the other all the time.
But for a more GQ answer, researchers have accepted and documented asexuality since at least Kinsey’s day. His scale went from 0 (hetero) to 6 (homo), but included “X” for asexual. He estimated that 1.5% of adult males are asexual.
More information about research into asexuality can be found at wikipedia: Asexuality - Wikipedia. I know it’s not the be all end all of cites, but it’s a start.
No, I’m questioning the idea that bisexuals are simply gay people in denial, which the OP stated as fact:
What does that word “like” mean to everyone else in this thread? I interpreted the sentence like so: “Some people assume that an ‘asexual’ person, like a ‘bisexual’ person, is actually just a fag who’s lying to himself.” If the OP did not mean that, he could stand to be a little clearer about it.
Duly noted.
Maybe my reading comprehension is off, but I read this to mean that astro was stating that the idea that “asexual” and “bisexual” is thought by some people to mean that a person is effectively gay but in denial, not that this idea has any basis in truth, or even that he believes this to be true.
For example, I might say “some people assume blonds like people of Polish descent are inherently stupid” without meaning to assert that either blonds or people of Polish descent are stupid, or that i believe this to be true. I’m just pointing out that some people believe this to be true.
There was an episode of “This American Life” that featured a man who had a medical condition where he had no testosterone in his body. It had effects on every part of his life, far beyond taking away all his sexual desire - he had no desire at all for anything. He had no interest in food, conversation, TV, films or anything at all.
Can’t a guy like that get testosterone shots or something? Surely he doesn’t plan on just living in that condition forever?
Hell yes, they exist; I’m living with one. DesertRoomie is tagged Roomie (Not Lover, not Girlfriend, not Wife) for a reason: She is a 48 year-old virgin* who so far as I know, has never gone beyond a simple kiss. We have been living together for sixteen years, shortly after my wife died, and not once have I heard or seen her express any sexual desire for anyone or anything.
*She was raped at age 25, but that hardly counts, does it, now.
When we first started living together she had some guy tagging along that she was engaged to (no date set) yet I never saw her looking at him the way a fiancée should look at her intended. I believe she was going through the motions to please her parents. He moved from Nevada to San Diego to pursue a job, then six months later wrote a Dear Jane letter. She seemed more relieved than devastated and has not done anything remotely like that again in fifteen years. During one of the few times I was able to get her to talk about her feelings, she mentioned he kept talking about he was really looking forward to their wedding night, which gave her the heebie jeebies.
Two years after my wife died, right on schedule according to the mourning texts I have read, I looked at her one day and thought, “I could love this woman.” Immediately after that was the thought, “She’ll never return it,” so I said and did nothing at the time. Three months later, after struggling with the feelings I had for her, I wrote a letter. In it I thanked her for being there when I was going through the darkest period in my life and she may well have kept me from suicide. Then I explained how somewhat to my surprise, I found myself in love again, with her. Commenting on her asexuality, I said how much it seemed a part of her, realized how much ingrained it was, and there was nothing I could do, or should do, to change it, but I was willing to do whatever it took, no matter how long it took, to help her change. I concluded with “The path lies before you if you wish to take it. I would be honored to show you the way.”
I laid the letter, folded, on her desk as I left for work one morning and waited for her to comment – waited for a month. Finally I asked if she had read the letter; she said yes. Then I asked if she had any thoughts about the letter; she said no. In one of the more ironical ponderings I’ve had about this relationship, such as it is, is that it’s supposed to be the woman who wants to talk about feelings and the man who keeps his inside where it doesn’t show. With us, it’s the opposite. Off and on as the months and years passed by I would probe trying to get some idea of what was going on in her head or her heart. Each one was unsuccessful.
At one point she commented that tax-wise, it would be advantageous for us to be married. I just looked at her and said, “I’m far too romantic to marry someone for a tax break. If I marry someone it would because I love her, and I would expect that love to be expressed in its full, physical manifestation.” That was the end of that.
Then, after nine years – Christmas, 2003 to be exact – we were at my brother’s after Christmas dinner. I was on the couch watching some movie and she sat next to me. Filled with warm Christmas spirits (and a couple glasses of wine) for the first time in years I deliberately touched her, by putting an arm around her waist. After about five seconds, she drew away and chastened, I sat with my hands on my lap for the rest of the evening. When we were driving home that night, I asked if my arm around her had made her uncomfortable. “Yes,” was her simple answer.
Something broke inside me. I concluded that, if after eleven years of living with me, nine years after knowing I had feelings for her, my touch made her uncomfortable, there was nothing that was going to change that. I set about crushing those feelings. It was quite a struggle for a while. I’ve been in love only a couple times in the past, and my love for them all is still there, even though they are long gone. With the object of my love around every day, it kept welling up again periodically. I would meditate, going back to that moment of “Yes” and mentally shred that spot of light, tamp it back into the ground. Quite a few sessions of meditation, and quite a few quarts of Jack Daniels later, I have been successful; I see DR simply as the person I am living with. We get along well enough – I commented once that judging by the sounds we hear, especially on Saturday nights, we get along better than about 80% of our neighbors – but there is not one shred of intimacy, physical or mental, in our relationship.
I have some theories about what might be going on in her head, but since I have no idea how accurate they might be, I’ll not give them here. Besides, I’ve hijacked this thread enough and the theories have the smell of sour grapes about them. Suffice it to say, that yes, there are people about who have no interest in sex or intimacy; I live with one.
More specifically relevant would be the distinction between factive and non-factive verbs.
As far as the controversy over the sentence goes, the word of greater interest, I would say, in agreement with everyone else, is “assume”. (Or rather, the full phrase, “Some people assume”)
I think the intent of the sentence is perfecltly clear in framing the question by stating the literal fact that “some people” believe that asexaulity is simply a state of denial about one’s inherent sexual nature. To torture and bend it into meaning what you claim to have construed would require a blowtorch , locking pliers, and an evil mirror universe dictionary with a mustache and goatee.
Well, I’ll agree with Hostile Dialect that the OP could’ve worded it better. He could’ve made it more clear that (/if) he doesn’t believe bisexuals are simply homosexuals in denial. (For that matter, it’s not really clear why he brought them up to begin with, but I guess that belief about them was meant to serve as an anchoring analogy to the one being questioned about asexuals in this thread). But I wouldn’t pounce on him for mere poor wording of a plausibly unintentional sort, still amenable to charitable reading; he deserves reasonable benefit of the doubt.
Huh, I never thought bisexuals were gay people in denial.
Rather, I thought they were gay people who were indecisive.
Anyhoo, I have no problem believing that an otherwise perfectly healthy and adjusted person might lack any interest in sex. I figure Kinsey’s 0-to-6 line should’ve had a spur on it for people who weren’t inclined to have to rate how hetero- or homosexual they were.
I guess one problem is that he doesn’t desire anything - including shots of testosterone.