Apologies if this has been asked before.
I asked my brother (who is vegetarian) whether vegans eat honey seeing as they don’t eat/drink any dairy products.
I did an Internet search and got conflicting answers from different websites.
My understanding (being an omnivore who lives in a very veggie-friendly community) is that true veganism entails not consuming animal products of any sort - this would include milk, unfertilized eggs (normal grocery store chicken eggs, etc.), and presumably honey. The idea is to minimize the exploitation of animals, and also extends to products such as leather, fur, and even wool.
What I want to know is: do vegans wear pearls? I’m assuming coral is out of the question there.
The vegans I know do not eat honey. They do eat apples from orchards that keep beehives for pollination of the apples.
Is that the main theory/purpose/ideal behind Veganism? Not to exploit animals?
If that is the case, Pearls would have to be a no no, as I am fairly certain the oyster doesn’t survive the pearl extraction process.
My question then is, would it be possible to run a vegan friendly dairy farm? I.E. If you kept each calf with their mother and only milked the mum of the excess that the calf didn’t drink itself, would that be exploting the cow? It’s producing the milk anyway, and you’re only taking the excess that the calf wouldn’t take anyway?
Personally I see no merit to being vegan, mankind has been eating other animals since there was a mankind - why stop now. But that is the opinion of a confirmed and conscientious carnivore so YMMV 
Honey is “all depends on the person”. There is no “International Ruling Council of Vegetarianism” that sez if you eat this, you are not a vegetarian, and if *that *you are an Ovo-lacto, and *something else *for a vegan. So, yes, one could consume honey and still call yourself a Vegan- without too many dudes rolling their eyes really hard. (Like they would if you said you eat steak as “it’s a dairy product” )
In general, the difference between Ovo-Lacto Vegetarians and Vegans is that the former consume dairy products and the latter do not. Honey is usually a “no” for *most *vegans. Some types of vegetarians differ between fertilized and unfertilized eggs.
Some vegetarians even wear leather (most do not), I don’t know any that don’t wear wool (no sheep are harmed, but again, you never know) and I have never heard of any that don’t wear pearls but it is not unlikely.
And yes, some dudes run a “cruelty free farm” which allows some types of vegetarians to consume products from there they would not otherwise eat.
But some feel that keeping any animal (even a pet) is slavery, and eviiiil. :rolleyes:
Yeah, but mankind has also been practicing <pick your crime, vice, or moral failing of choice> since there was a mankind. We still can choose not to rape, murder, enslave, and so on. Do you see any merit in such choices? The “golden rule” still has adherents…do unto others as you would have done unto you.
Sailboat
I saw a militant vegan on TV once. She stated that “honey is only for bees.”
Do a search on “Jains” or “Jainism”, which as I understand it is the roots of veganism.
For Jains honey and pearls would be a no-no. I mean serious Jains wear maskes to avoid accidentally inhaling bugs.
Interestingly enough, Jains are famed as traders and middle men in India.
All of the above is an over simplification…YMMV
My vegan friends typically define their veganism in terms of consent (when cornered for a decent definition that is) – animal products are not vegan because you are unable to get consent for their use from the animal (by definition, apparently). This also applies to animals who are already dead, or abandoned their product. My friends had to concede that consensual consumption of human milk, placenta or body parts was vegan under their definition, but honey was not.
This soon runs into the problem of what’s to be done with the male calves. Costs are going to be ruinous if you have to support a herd of unproductive “sacred bulls.”
There is something seriously messed up with that statement. I wonder how they feel about (TMI WARNING)consenual cannibalism
Do vegans eat only foraged foods? Agriculture is a principal cause of habitat destruction. I’m not talking about organic vs. factory farm. Agriculture of any form harms at least some wildlife.
Vegan arguments are a matter of personal value/morality and cannot be discussed scientifically.
Humans have always been omnivores and opportunists. We did not have the luxury of choosing which foods to eat or not to eat until fairly recently in our history.
Nah, those expenses are easily offset by the increase in cow productivity as a consequence of copious and vigorous sexual activity. Better cheese comes from happy cows.
The veal industry takes care of that problem neatly. This is one of the primary propaganda points that vegans use when trying to convince the lacto-ovos to eschew dairy: “if you consume dairy, you are supporting the veal industry”.
Regarding the OP, opinions vary widely amongst vegans as to whether or not honey is vegan. This is a common topic of discussion on veg*n message boards:
and this is just a handful of examples from that board alone! The discussions can get quite heated, too.
Also, bear in mind that there are two different types of vegans: those who practice veganism for moral/ethical reasons, and those who practice it for scientific/health reasons. The latter are usually referred to as ‘dietary vegans’ as opposed to ‘vegans,’ and they usually will eat honey. They also don’t have any qualms about using leather or any other animal by-product.
Oops—I wasn’t paying attention to the question. :smack: If the dairy farm were ‘vegan-friendly’, then selling the calves to a veal producer would be an obvious no-no.
Not to hijack, but the only difference between eating meat/dairy or any animal exploited consumables, is that we have to eat. We don’t have to murder, rape or enslave to live.
I think what GreedySmurf was trying to say without so many words is our bodies have evolved over thousands and thousands of years to eat meat as well as vegetables. Despite being equipped with the teeth and GI system to prove it, we have very natural tendencies to crave this kind of food. We’re at the top of the food chain by no fault of our own. Animals eat other animals… are they inherently evil? Why are they morally above us if not? Because we are self-conscious does not me we can just shut off our natural urges without a great amount of distress. The fact that Vegans can do it IS a choice they have made, but no one can blame the rest of humanity for eating what we have been naturally selected to consume. Humans are animals too.
All that said, I’m all for ethical treatment of animals, whether they be doomed to be consumed or not. I also know of the horrible conditions commercial farms inflict on these creatures. If there was something I could realistically do about it I would.
What about creatures that can’t give consent because they don’t have a brain? (jellyfish, algae) What about fermented soy, or anything fermented? Yeast belongs to the fungi kingdom, and is neither plant nor animal. What about food modified by bacteria? What about animals killed by other animals (carrion)? Where do vegans draw the line there? Lastly, why are unfertilized eggs not eaten by vegans? Most hens and ducks naturally lay unfertilized eggs if there is no male around, so why is eating eggs a no no to vegans? I can understand the moral no-dairy argument and the issue of consent but I can’t see how this applies to eggs that some hen has abandoned. I hope a vegan will come along and help clarify.
Trouble is, once “freshened,” a cow has little interest in a bull (nor he in her). Even when she does, a single bull suffices for a sizeable herd. AI makes this even more the case - one top-notch bull can serve many herds.
I think the egg thing is based on a couple of principles:
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You are exploiting the chicken as an egg factory. Animals shouldn’t be “used” for any reason.
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Many egg farms keep chickens in cruel/inadequate facilities and do things like trimming off their beaks so they can’t kill each other.
Generally, the vegans I’m familiar with don’t worry about yeast, bacteria or algae. In fact they are touted as sources of B12 which are vegan-friendly.