Yes, but after another 20 years of the Internet people are going to adapt to the idea that people aren’t always, by default, straight white American males. The Internet is a pretty good proving ground for the idea that we cannot automatically assume we think we know what a person must be because our own prejudices get in the way.
Which comes about because of what ‘society’ believes about the nature of transgendered people. The members of ‘society’ who believe, wrongly, that people ‘choose’ to be transgendered feel that because the behaviour is ‘chosen’, it can be as easily unchosen. They are seriously mistaken. You are seriously mistaken. Once the ignorance that ‘society’ (obviously, not all of ‘society’ - or at least it should be obvious to you after this thread) clings to is pried out of their grasp, they’ll change their minds. At least the ones who actually allow their ignorance to be fought.
If you feel that transgendered people have some kind of responsibility to accept you, then you probably have at least that much responsibility to accept them.
And the reverse is also true.
That’s basically my actual opinion on the subject. And at that I am going to bid adieu to this thread.
Unless Telemark has something interesting to say about the myologically altered satyr man.
Does becoming a satyr affect his ability to perform his job? If not, you haven’t really changed the question.
I think people will be perfectly accepting of a dragon who becomes a satyr.
Telemark, so its effect on productivity is the only factor that matters then?
kidchameleon That’s a very good point. As a Chameleon you must have a unique insight into such issues.
Indeed. I have close relatives in the reptile world who can change their sex in response to a lack in the gene pool. So for some species, gender is naturally mutable, incuding Green Dragons.
Yeah, we don’t really have the same gender hangups as humans.
If the person can perform their job before and after, then yes, only their performance matters. No one has any rights to have people remain immutable around them. It’s a non-starter as far as I can tell; a right that doesn’t exist.
If someone’s new gender, haircut, appendage makes it impossible for them to perform their job, it’s perfectly acceptable to let them go because of that. The fact they they changed is irrelevant.
The lack of productivity may come from co-workers unwillingness to accept change. That is their problem, the inability to accept change. You address that by dealing with the person who is unwilling to adapt to changes, not the person who changed.
I don’t understand why only it’s impact on commerce should matter. What about production is so all-hallowed that utility alone determines value?
Similarly, if I come to work nude, I am not being disruptive, it’s the people who can’t handle the sight my naked butt who are being disruptive and ought to be written up. I should not be punished simply because I have chosen not to conform to an arbitrary social norm. Likewise, if I want to chow down on a sandwich made with human flesh in the break room (provided, of course, that the flesh was sold or donated willingly by the person whose flesh it was), any co-worker who takes exception is the one causing a problem, not me. It’s just a silly taboo, you know. What’s important here is my rights.
I mean, shit, why should marvelously sophisticated, enlightened intellectuals like us have to consider the folks in the middle of the bell curve? They’re a bunch of fucking morons, and there’s no need to consider them at all. We have a perfect right to reorder society in any way we see fit no matter what everybody else wants, 'cuz we’re just so fucking wonderful.
They’re all racist, anyway.
You have something you want to contribute, Lonesome or are you just trying to make mswas look good?
Lonesome Polecat In my experiences around the internet, anecdotal of course, the SDMB represents the middle of the bell curve.
Just trying to show how shallow and specious the reasoning on this thread really is.
Don’t you know, blindly accepting the status quo is the only ‘reasonable’ thing to do. As long as you are blindly accepting the correct status quo. How dare you have more questions about it!
Actually, if the intent had been to show that any of the logic was specious, it would have made sense to actually point out a logical path that would have led to a legitimate conclusion. Making odd claims that some things are OK and other things are not OK without actually explaining what characteristic put them on which side of the “OK” line, (and then throwing in one’s signature gratuitous claim of “racism”) simply indicates that one is offended that other posters are discussing a topic with which one disagrees but for which one has no actual logical argument in opposition.
So far, the argument put forth to permit the prohibition of transgendered persons in a work environment has been the sole claim that it offends the “ick” response of some people. Granting even that the “ick” factor is real, I have not yet seen an argument that indicates why it should be subject to discrimination any more than persons of different races or persons who have suffered disfiguring accidents or diseases should be subject to legal discrimination.
Changing the topic to violations of current dress code avoids the discussion; it does not “show” that the arguments presented are specious.
Would those who defend “ick” as a reason to discriminate permit a workplace to discriminate against the victim of an accident, a traumatic burn, a disfiguring illness, or a really bad case of acne scars? A transgendered person doers not even display physical signs of their change unless they are unclothed,* so that the entire response must be based on information that is not immediately visible to any other observer.
*(They demonstrate the results of the change–the increase or diminution of breast size, the presence or absence of facial hair–but the change is not displayed unless they are displaying scars.)
Sounds good. You let me know when you’re going to get started with that course of action, I’m intererested in seeing how you go about it.