[story time]
My hubby and I were going to some BBQ joint about ten years ago. We pulled into the parking lot and saw many, many old Chevy and Ford pick-ups and SUVs with Confederate flags stickers on them. We were extremely uncomfortable and left without ever going in.
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I’m not offended by the Confederate flag but I do assume certain unpleasant things about people who affix it to their vehicle(s) or display one on their clothing. I’m either going to assume you’re a racist, a neo-racist or trying to get a rise out of me (in other words, an ass).
Count me as not offended by the Confederate flag in and of itself. Of course, neither am I offended by a swastica in and of itself. It’s all about the context. In the wrong context I might be offended by displays of the American flag.
Of course I wouldn’t assume a hidden agenda with you - I didn’t mean to put forth a rule (even though I did say “whenever somebody uses the word now”). I was just agreeing with archmichael (I think) in that many times these days people are up to something when they unnnaturally shove the word “niggardly” into their conversation.
And to end the high-jack - yes, flag is offensive.
If people do that, yes, definitely. However, people have differing vocabularies, and sometimes a “normal, everyday” word for one person is “old-fashioned and nobody ever uses that anymore” to someone else. I suspect that it’s sometimes hard to tell. A person using their normal (to them) vocabulary might be told that they “talk funny” by someone else—or worse.
Okay, sorry for continuing the hijack. </end hijack>
I see it and think “racism,” “slavery,” “treason,” “Jim Crow” and pride in having supported those things (and lost - flying the flag of the losers tends to reinforce that that’s what’s being supported).
Absolutely offensive.
(Of course, people have the right to be offensive on their own private property…etc. etc.)
Offended isn’t the right word. Bemused, irritated, sad, and sometimes disgusted by turns. To me, it symbolizes a failed attempt to cleave the United States of America, for reasons valid and invalid. There’s nothing patriotic about it, that’s for sure. It also represents a regime that clung to slavery, and a tragic period of American history in which many young men died in terrible ways. The bottom line is that it was one of the darkest periods in our history. As for the flag, I wish people could leave it to history and not plaster it on their car bumpers.
That wouldn’t be Maurice’s BBQ around the Columbia, SC area would it?
I’m not sure if I find the flag offensive. I find that a large number people who fly it are offensive. I lived through the end of the Flag Wars in South Carolina, when people were in a passionate debate about whether the flag should be left flying above the Statehouse dome. This inane, asinine, utterly pointless debate consumed the state. People were more interested in this than they were in the state’s status as 49th in test scores and other education standings (South Carolina’s unofficial motto was “Thank God for Mississippi” ).
It depends. When in historically appropriate, that’s fine. All other times, I see it as a sign of hatred. And when it’s the people who live across the hall from me, well, I’m glad they’ve never stopped when we were having one of our political debates, ie, my roommates and whoever else is there screaming at the television because we are watching a show about gay marriage and the archbishop comes on condeming homosexuality. I don’t want to get into a debate or argument with them, not only because they have the Confederate battle flag on the wall, but also because they are drunk a fair amount of the time.
Even using your example, one where there seems to be little doubt about the meaning of “nigger” — people still seem to assign different intent to the speaker or singer (as I understand) – and therefore different meanings based on who is saying it and in what context. Yet in your extreme example - if where you grew up the word “nigger” means “tomato,” than you’re not out to offend anyone. Sure, in that extreme example most if not all people may misunderstand you – but they’ll be offended ONLY BECAUSE they misunderstand you. Now with the confederate flag, we’re talking about a symbol, where the meaning depends on who you ask. There’s no general idea out there that it means ‘this’ or it really means ‘that.’ (Well, except for some here at Straightdope) So, to just assume that a person who has a confederate flag bumper sticker is ignorant, or a racist, or any of the other categories being passed around, is stereotyping people just as much as the people who you think you’re talking about —
Please, people, let us get our terminology straight. Refer here for a guide to the various flags. The “stars and bars” is not the flag with the X-shaped design; that’s either the battle flag (what most people think of as the “Confederate” flag and what JRDelirious likely saw in Puerto Rico) or the naval jack.
And I don’t find the Confederate flag (in either format) offensive in the least, though I might be offended at some of the ideas espoused by some people who fly it. I do think it’s a valid expression of Southern heritage and culture.
Yes, I do find it offensive. Why not pick another symbol to represent the richness of Southern culture, rather than one that is known to be offensive to so many. That in itself says something that is not altogether complimentary to the South and the good people of the South.
I also find it stunning that I can drive over the Potomac and head south on Route 1 to do my shopping at Target, and look up and see that the road is named “Jefferson Davis Highway.” To me, seeing that makes me wonder if the road leading to the main gate of the US Military Academy at West Point is called “Benedict Arnold Way.” I cannot fathom how Virginians could have decided to name a road so near to our nation’s capital for someone who, in my view, is on the short list of all-time traitors to the United States.
In most contexts other than a museum or history book, yes. Bad manners to fly one in my book, in much the same sense as [Godwin warning!] wearing a swastika would be - the associations are simply too ugly.
BTW. let’s not pretend that the Civil War was really about states’ rights. That’s a tiresome apology. It was about slavery, plain and simple. The south seceeded because white southerners didn’t want to do their own work.
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