This (apparent poll) seems better suited to IMHO than to Great Debates.
[ /Moderating ]
I love America, and in my travels around this country, I find the people are unfailingly friendly, generous and optimistic. Having said that – just refer to **lissa’s ** post #17. She hit every point I would make, and probably said it more succinctly than I could.
I just realized my previous post made it sound like I’m a condescending Canadian expat – I’m actually a U.S. citizen, and have been for six generations.
I think Lissa did a wonderful summation of the flaws of American culture. As to the fact that most of the “American-haters” are Americans - well, we have to be around us all the time - familiarity breeds contempt, etc.
That said, I always hope that people from other countries won’t see me as one of “those” Americans when they encounter me, and I imagine we all do. One thing about Americans - we all really want to be liked (or at least not hated) so much!
I wonder if this is a hijack, if so it could be a new thread, but - now that the faults of Americans (as people, not politically) have been pretty well hashed, would any of the non-Americans on either side of the love/hate fence care to list any good traits you see in us as a people?
I agree with pretty much everything Mangetout has said so far.
I definitely don’t hate Americans. In fact, I’m madly in love with one of them. But a lot of things about the country as a whole scare me a little bit. I’m planning on moving there within the year, and I’m nervous about it. I feel like it’ll be so different. I don’t like the general attitude that I feel all around me when I’m there. Not from everyone, of course, but it’s present much more than I’ve ever felt at home.
The sense of entitlement, and the “not my problem” vibes I’ve gotten during my many visits there are what annoy me the most.
Also, as a Canadian whose only display of patriotism is a teeny maple leaf on a Roots backpack and who doesn’t bring out a flag till Canada Day, the fervent patriotism of some Americans just plain confuses me. How many stars-and-stripes stickers can you put on a car before you’re affecting gas mileage? And while, yes, your flag is lovely, why are you wearing a denim version of it across your butt?
Jerry Springer. That is not a joke. Americans are some of the most open people I have ever met. The fact you are so willing to let everyone see the worst your country has to offer is quite inspiring.
I’m Canadian and I don’t hate American’s at all. In fact, I’m hoping to be naked with one by the end of the month.
However, I’m not crazy about the current administration, and in the states that I’ve been in that have a real “Uber-religious” thing going on, I am very uncomfortable.
Mangetout, I love you dearly and you’ve done more service to my questions on this messageboard than any other Doper. I’m going to call you out on the “pride in domestic products” thing, though, because I am finishing my first-ever visit to England, and it is a source of never-ending amusement (of the happy kind) that so many things are so ostentatiously British here. My bottled water is Bottled At An English Spring, the taxies are Proudly Made In Coventry, even the chicken I am now cooking for dinner is Free Range British Chicken.
Aside from all of that–which is merely incidental–Britain has an incredible consumer draw on America, one of the most Anglophilic nations in the world. Scottish cashmere, Irish beer, Staffordshire china, the list goes on and on and on. You make some of the best stuff in the world, and either you’re proud of it, or you know that the tourists eat it up.
I have seen far, far more things with MADE IN UK! MADE IN UK! MADE IN UK! slapped on them here than I see things with the Made In America logo at home. Really, the only three items I can think of that Americans put stock in buying domestically are beef (because it is some of the best in the world), Levis jeans, and pickup trucks.
Sattua, I think the difference is that Americans perceive their homemade items to be superior, while in Britain, it is a warning label.[sup]*[/sup]
Also, while I’m not going to knock the quality of American beef, our import restrictions prevent beef from entering from most other nations. Japanese beef is forbidden; I’m not sure if English and Canadian beefs have ever gotten back in either.
[sup]*[/sup]d&r
Well one thing “Americans” are known for is a dangerous combination of ignorance about the world beyong their borders and arrogance.
Case in point:
Time Magazine had a cover story on immigration earlier this year with the title “Who gets to be an American?”. Even this seemingly benign question gets a roll of the eyes :rolleyes: from Central and South Americans. They all consider themselves “American” and wonder why citizens of the US (including editors of news magazines) think it refers exclusively to people of the US.
I’m a Canadian citizen who lives in the US permanently now. No, I don’t hate Americans as a people. I hate many of the American government’s policies and actions, both abroad and inside its borders. What I’ve observed is, that a lot of people who aren’t Americans can’t distinguish the actions of the government from the citizens of the country. I was brainwashed by the Canadian media to think that Americans were a certain kind of way, because that’s the kind of slant they wanted to put on it. When I got here, I discovered that it was patently untrue. I don’t doubt that the media in other countries paint a similarly desolate picture of the state of the country, based on the bad news that comes out of here, and the foreign policies of the government. As a global, political entity, the USA is in a mess of trouble of its own making. As people to live next door to, the’re mostly pretty nice.
Slight hijack, sorry.
Jeffrice, I got an example of that in your hometown! While moving back to Nevada from PA, a friend of mine and myself were stranded in Sterling and the people were so nice and polite, and went out of their way to help us. It was very nice.
~Tasha
Heh, you’re making a mistake most Americans make. The Puritans were not as puritanical as portrayed, and they’ve received a bum rap. The anti-sexual hysteria was actually a product of the Victorians here in the States. Because of them, we almost ended up with “gentlemen cows.” (Go here and search for cows.)
That really gives some perspective. I mean, my grandparents on my dad’s side are from the Victorian era. My grandparents were in a world where people put trousers on their piano stools to maintain decency (search for trousers at the above link), and only a few years ago the Man Show proudly brought us three-quarter-ass pants on basic cable.
Needless to say, I hope we continue making progress in that direction.
I wouldn’t argue with your point in the first sentence, generally speaking.
But I might :dubious: at your :rolleyes: over the use of the term “American” by citizens of the U.S. - aka the United States of America. That’s our name. What should we call ourselves and be known as? Uniteds? Statesians? Are there other nations know as the United States of anything? (Answer: yes - look directly to our south for an easy example.)
When someone makes a reasonable suggestion for an alternative name, I will accept the point of view of Central & South Americans (which, by the way, aren’t nations as a whole, and contain many fine countries by which their citizens can derive identifiying names).
And that represents a completely “American” point of view. It is not that anyone objects to the term being used, it is the exclusivity that most “Americans” assume when using the term.
And we are really a federation of states. So a more accurate description of myself would be “Virginian”. My state has agreed to be united with other states, and as such, are the United States.
I thought Virginia was a commonwealth, not a state. 
You don’t flash your Virginia passport when you go abroad, though. Other countries don’t make treaties with the individual states and don’t recognize them diplomatically as nations. As far as the federal government and the rest of the world is concerned, you are first and foremost a citizen of the United States and an “American,” misnomer or no.
Lissa put it far better than I could.
I like Americans – a friendly, outgoing, generous people.
People and politics are very different things. I don’t like the politicians in Canada much, either.
The prevalance of “extreme views” held by Americans I have met boggles me, even if distorted by the media. While obviously this is a personal bias, moderate voices tend to get lost in the shuffle. Thus, with regards to religion, abortion, social welfare, moral issues, the role of money in measuring worth, greed, sexual mores – the views of many Americans are polarized beyond what I would consider a reasonable degree (regardless of “which side”), preventing reasonable debate. The lack of politesse and public decorum by American politicians themselves exacerbates this problem. Some Americans cannot see the colour grey.
When you see people mocking an American on websites, etc., the reason is often immaturity, jealousy, treating America and Americans as a monolithic block, media portrayal, cultural snobbism, or “following the crowd” (an easy way to go along with the crowd in some countries). Many America-bashing things I’ve seen do not address some of the cogent reasons for disliking American policy or a minority of Americans.
Well, if there are more Americans, their extremes will seem more… extreme. It’s simple numbers.
Minor point: I think the trousers-on-the-piano thing might be a historical myth. The Victorians liked ruffles and lace and tacked them on wherever they could find a spot. It wasn’t a widespread practice to cover table/chair/piano legs by any means.*
The only contemporary citation for this tale (IIRC) is a book which was written tongue-in-cheek by a British woman who was making fun of uptight Americans.
*In my job at the museum I’ve studied thousands of old photographs, and rarely, if ever, have I seen furniture leg coverings and when you do, it’s a table skirt. I’ve actually never *seen *a photo of little trousers.