I just came home from a short vacation. I called the auto system of my credit card (G.M. Mastercard) to make sure I was charged the proper amount for things I bought and that I wasn’t double charged for anything. This credit card gives you credit towards the purchase of a new car, which is why I use it. Anyway, the computer voice prompt told me that my earning credits was 0.:eek: I talked to the attendant and he confirmed that I had no earned credits towards a car. My exact words were “Bullshit. I should have over $2500 of credits. What’s the problem. Are you computers on the fritz?”. Well, he got nuts. I mean really upset, and yelled at me that he wasn’t going to tolerate abusive profanity, and he disconnected the call. I didn’t know what he was talking about. I wasn’t yelling or anything. So, I called back and spoke to a supervisor. She confirmed that their computers were at the time being updated, and that is why they had cleared my earned credits temporarily. She told me I had almost $2700 towards a car in credits. Then she told me that I wasn’t allowed to use the word “bullshit” ever again when calling them, no matter what, because it is a specific word they refuse to tolerate. Now, let me tell you, I wasn’t yelling or anything, even though I was upset that the computer said I had no credits. I used the word in a rather casual manner, I used it only once, and it is the only adult word I used. And the context I used it in was me being out over 2 grand. Was I in the wrong, or are these people jerks.
I work in a call center and I wouldn’t be allowed to hang up on you after you said ‘bullshit’ in that context. I would warn you not to use further profanity or the call would be disconnected (after hitting the button to record the call), and if you said it again I would release the line. We are allowed to release the line without a warning if the customer insults you personally, whether or not they use profanity - you’d get a warning for saying ‘This is bullshit’, you get disconnected if you say ‘You’re stupid’.
You were in the wrong.
Keep in mind, I wasn’t screaming or yelling or anything. I assumed the computers were on the blink but I only wanted to make sure. I was speaking in a very calm casual voice. I could see if I was yelling at the guy or something.
In my opinion, he wasn’t. I’ve never worked at a call center where the policy was to immediately disconnect if the customer happened to use profanity, only if they did so after warnings or if they attacked the person on the phone. You are going to have to deal with people who are upset, and sometimes when people are upset they cuss, often without even realizing at first that such language is not really appropriate at the time. I think the person who he spoke to was either way too easily offended or was just looking for a reason to ditch the call (I’m not offended by profanity, but I will hang up on a customer if they use it after being warned because I’d rather not talk to someone who is that mad).
Well, it is a matter of opinion. I have called many times to complain, I have been very upset, and I have never used profanity for the simple reason that the more important the matter, the more I want to resolve it, the more reason not to be rude.
I can tell you that if I am talking to anyone and they say “bullshit”, I take that as a personal insult and that is the end of the converstion with me.
I have been involved in disputes amounting to quite a bit more that $2000. I have been, an I am involved now, in disputes amounting to tens and hundreds of thousands of dollars. I have never used profanity. I use lawyers, I use the courts. I cannot see how using profanity is going to help you any.
If I am not satisfied I’ll ask for a supervisor. If that doesn’t work, I’ll go higher up, I’ll put it in writing. But the minute you use profanity and insult the other person, you have lost any arguments you had.
I just do not accept that it is acceptable at any time to lose your manners or disrespect others. If you are not happy you have the recourse of the courts.
It seems Americans are more and more spoiled and throw a tantrum whenever they are not happy. To me, one alarming sign of this is the dramatic increase in rage incidents in airplanes. People need to learn to control themselves and resolve things rationally.
I have been doing business for many years and I have had some very tough negotiations. Never has anyone insulted me nor have I ever insulted anyone. It would have been the end of the conversation.
Well now, “jerks” means a few things. The definition “people who don’t tolerate even casual profanity” wasn’t one I was aware of.
Their call center, their rules. It seems a fair one to me, especially given the untold amounts of plain rudeness anyone who works a credit card call center probably takes on an average day. Perhaps over-zealously applied, perhaps not. If you’ve a major problem with it, drop the card and pick up another one. You could even write them a letter letting them know why:
Is anyone else reminded of Lenny Bruce’s “blahblahblah” routine?
My first thought while reading your post was that it was (well, you know what word goes here…) I wouldn’t use the phrase in a formal business setting, but aren’t interjections and colloquialisms usually frowned upon in a formal business setting anyway? The phrase as you used it strikes me less as profanity and more as something on the level of what in the past was called a “mild oath.”
I could see how the rep might have overreacted, thinking that you were maybe getting belligerent over the missing credits, but this is a customer service center, not a customer training center, and I would expect them to expect their customers to speak in their usual vernacular.
I think “bullshit,” although delightfully descriptive and even somewhat casual in a lot of speech, could be very offensive in the context of business. First of all, when talking to a stranger, you have no idea what their personal comfort level is with profanity. That makes it rude to use it. Second, it can sound like a personal accusation, as in “I know that’s not the truth, so that means you’re personally making this stuff up and not doing your job.” That’s more offensive (in a small but important degree) than saying “Your system is telling you bullshit.” Even if you meant it in the latter sense, the listener may not necessarily take it that way.
Using profanity is a self-control issue, for me. You gotta know when to turn it off. When someone can’t turn it off (or chooses not to) in a situation where such language isn’t appropriate, it’s easy to assume the worst or go on the defensive.
When I overhear someone using that word (or other epithets) in transactions like this, even though it doesn’t offend me personally, I find it disturbing. I usually conclude that either (a) the person was not “raised right” (use Southern accent when saying that phrase, to imbue it with full meaning) or (b) the person is so enraged they are forgetting the norms of conversation. I realize that neither of these conclusions fit your situation, but those are the snap judgments I would draw, and such may be the case with the representative you spoke to.
I think hanging up on the spot was excessive, and yelling at YOU was just as bad as you using profanity with him. I think it would have been better to issue you a warning that the call would be terminated if you didn’t stop using profanity. Maybe he wanted to get off the phone so he could finish typing into your file “volatile; might enrage easily; check carefully any package from customer’s home address for ticking noises.” Heh.
I use “bull.” It isn’t profanity, but everyone knows what you mean. You can also use bull-funky, which is a giggle-version of it.
I like the word bullshit. It says something very clearly that no other word does. As opposed to the F-word, which has simply lost all meaning.
The guy way overreacted. “You’re full of shit,” would be one thing but just saying, “bullshit” meaning, “that isn’t the case” deserved a warning at most. It sounds like either the CSR had been having a horrible day (excusable) or was a pissant who was following the exact letter of the law to use what little power that he had (inexcusable.)
Haj
If you’re calling a business and you use profanity, you are automatically allowing the person on the other end of the line to assume that you are an uncultured moron.
“I don’t accept that.”
“This is ridiculous.”
“That is unacceptable.”
“You are mistaken.”
“If you can’t give me accurate information about my account, connect me to someone who can.”
If I were in customer service and someone told me that something I had said was “bullshit” (even in a calm and reasonable tone of voice) I would assume that the customer in question was prepared to BECOME abusive, as he had already used a profanity.
It’s not that hard NOT to swear, for crying out loud.
Where I work, that would have been cause to hang up the phone immediately. Personally, I probably would have stayed on the phone, but in the back of my mind, I always know that once someone uses profanity, I have the option of hanging up.
Even though “bullshit” is not particularly strong or colorful language, I wouldn’t appreciate the person at the credit card company saying that to me. Even if it was in a very mild, conversational way. For example:
Del: I haven’t yet received my replacement card in the mail.
Guy on the phone: Bullshit, our records show it was mailed out two weeks ago.
Del: :eek:
It’s not so much that I would be mortally offended. It’s unprofessional and disrespectful. Neither the customer nor the vendor should say that during a business call.
Casual conversation with friends? Okay.
Any type of business call? Not acceptable, for the reasons Hamadryad pointed out. It reflects poorly on you.
How reassuring to know all the word police are alive and well. I guess customer service now means we service the customers we approve of.
By asking if they were jerks, what I mean is, this guy refused to tell me the computers were not right. He simply gave me a phone “shrug” and said I had no credits. The supervisor later told me that the computers update themselves at the same time every day. The first guy could have told me that, and told me I should call the system back in a few minutes. Instead he just confirmed the mistaken info, making me think my credits had been wiped out. This reminds me of when I had regular 56k internet and I would call tech support because of problems. I always got the “nope, We’re not having any problems. The troubles on your end” story, which was always untrue. These companies need to fess up when there is a glitch in their system so the customer can relax a bit knowing it’s not his problem.
You just changed horses in the middle of your stream, PK. The company may in fact provide poor service, poor support, or even false reports. The OP asks if it is unreasonable for them to hang up if you tell them their answer is bullshit. While I would never stop a professional call over that word, I would certainly back up any subordinate who chose to do so.
Your vocabulary is extensive enough that removing twenty or so words from it won’t make it impossible for you to express any subtleties of emotion or fact. You are not offended by vulgarities offered casually. You are now aware that some people are. The law favors them. In the jurisdiction where I live what you did is a misdemeanor, on the phone, or in person, and is punishable by a fine, or up to thirty days in jail. I don’t think it’s been enforced that way for a while, but if you go to court over a dispute, and the person relates to the judge what you said, it will make your case weaker.
The use of your favorite profane idioms is really a minor matter, but you should be aware that if you become dependent upon them, you put yourself at risk of loosing some important advantages because of it. So, whether or not it is bullshit, it is illegal bullshit in some situations, and you need to have it under control.
Tris
No, it means we service the customers who don’t swear at us. :rolleyes:
What everyone else said, plus my opinion, which is that a swear word is an indicator to me that I can stop listening to what the other person is saying now, because they have moved from having a rational conversation with me to having an argument/yelling at me. It changes how I view the conversation, and the person I’m trying to work things out with. It’s a red flag in a business conversation, IMO.
BTW, I find it amusing that a country so obsessed with avoiding offense as indicated in the ongoing threads Retarded is now a dirty word and Orientals, Europeans, Indians, Africans would also consider it OK to use profanity when dealing with other people.
I would also point out that context is everything. If I am giving you information and you say “bullshit!” I take as meaning “Not true! You are lying to me!” and I cannot help but take offense at that.
One thing to keep in mind is that using profanity is never going to help your case. Never.
I have often had reps give me lousy information. They are low paid people with only basic knowledge. If I am not happy I ask for someone higher up.
I had an incident while using an ATM card at a bank where it malfunctioned. I went to the teller, then the branch manager and he said my story was impossible. Is that calling me a liar or what? I was extremely insulted, frustrated and agitated. I still kept my cool and did not use profanity. The situation was finally resolved (I was right).
When I walked out my intention was to take my account elsewhere but I did not say it. I do things, I do not threaten to do things.
Thinking it over calmly I realized it would be very costly for me to switch banks so I let the whole thing go. If it were less costly I might have done it on principle but this was more than I was willing to do.
Now they treat me like royalty at the bank. If I had made an ugly scene and started yelling insults I think our relations would not be quite the same.