In the thread about The Marvelous Ms. Maisel, I commented that I really got tired of what I considered her father’s “stupidity” - which other people considered to be comedy gold. I realize “stupidity” didn’t really describe my feelings - and that there were other shows in which I enjoyed stupid characters.
Maybe the character type I dislike is clueless, self-absorbed, and entitled, combined with their not bearing the repercussions from their self-absorption.
For example, I’ve liked characters such as Barney Fife, Gomer Pyle, and Kramden/Norton. Perhaps I distinguish them from the Abe Maisel character because they exist so much further down on the socio-economic scale. As opposed to Abe, who acts as tho he is entitled to a pretty rarified existence. I’m not sure if it bothers me more when “intelligent” characters act stupidly, than when less intelligent characters do.
I’m basically thinking out loud, here, but wondering if any of you had thoughts that might direct my thoughts.
In my way of thinking, Barney Fife and Gomer Pyle were not stupid, Fife was deeply insecure and suffered from a “Napolean Complex” and Pyle was naive and innocent of the world at large. Kramden thoguht he was smarter than he was, with his get rich quick schemes, but I don’t know if I’d describe him as “stupid”. Norton is probably closest to what I’d consider a classic TV “stupid” character.
What I’d call “stupid” characters that have annoyed me in the past are Chrissy Snow, the embodiment of the steroetypical “dumb blonde” and Joey on Friends. Also Phoebe to an extent, though she was only part stupid, the other part being “free spirit”.
I can’t think of any specific examples, but in general I don’t like stupid characters.
They seem to be used as roadblocks for the main characters, rather than just stupid people hanging around.
But funnily, I disagree with your example. I hated Gomer and Barney once I got older. How did Gomer pass the basic entrance qualifications for the Marines?
Are there a lot of stupid characters in dramas? Homer Simpson is too stupid to live, the Clampetts are stupid and are kept alive only by their “good hearts”. I can’t believe Frank Burns even got admitted to med school, let alone has an MD.
Maybe Rick in the original Magnum PI? Sometimes he seems to be a bit slow on the uptake. Sometimes, he can wield a weapon and be useful in a fight, others he gets conked on the head and missed everything.
Dislike them strongly. One of the masterstrokes in Frasier was having two smart brothers, rather than a smart and a stupid one. Raised the level of writing enormously.
Yeah - “stupid” is a problematic word - but I’m not think of any great alternative.
I’m not sure why Norton was “stupider” than Ralph. He sure had a fancier apartment. For whatever reason I always thought he had more $$ than Ralph. For example, he loaned Ralph w/ the understanding he would dmane money every time Ralph turned around and "so far, you ain’t been no pinwheel!). :D. And he was able to maintain his civil service job - which I always thought equivalent to bus driver. And Norton was “happier.” He and Trixie yelled less and said fewer mean things than Ralph.
I think what I really dislike is characters acting out of extreme self interest, in ways they ought to know better, and not experiencing sufficient repercussions. Which - yeah - is a lot more complicated than “stupid.” I’ll see if any more examples come to me.
Maybe Gilligan. Although I’m not sure I really cared for ANY of the individual characters on that show. To the extent it worked, it was the result of the ensemble (especially IIRC when stoned!)
Part of this was influenced by having recently watched Being the Riccardos. I never cared for Lucy. Always thought her stupid. Never saw the appeal.
I hate 'em all, especially “Joey” and Ashton Kutcher’s character on That 70s Show. For some reason, I liked Zack from Big Bang Theory, and he was the stupidest of them all.
I would argue that a lot of “intelligent” people act exactly like this. Especially when they treat their expertise in one area as meaning they should be listened to similarly in all sorts of other areas.
I always thought Jed Clampett had a sort of native/inborn shrewdness handicapped by general ignorance of the society he moved to, but Elly Mae and Jethro were flat out stupid.
Neither Huckleberry Finn nor The Good Soldier Švejk are stupid, but they prevail in societies that have crossed the line from complexity into insanity. The “Wise Fool” trope, especially appreciated by audiences in times of rapid change and upheaval. Will Rogers and Robert Benchley made this their own, even though Benchley was an Ivy League sophisticate and, according to Bud Schulberg after encountering a drunken Will Rogers Jr., Rogers Sr. held the average American in contempt.
Stan Laurel’s character is an eight year old kid, but Ollie is the stupid one because he insists that he’s smart.
Some I don’t mind – Homer Simpson, for example – but there are many I dislike intensely. It depends on the quality of the writing.
Barney Fife, for instance, never did much for me (neither did Don Knotts in any role except in Pleasantville). Too much of an overactor. George in Seinfeld was awful and dragged everything else down with him. The “clueless manchild” trope (According to Jim, Kevin Can Wait) is appalling to watch (I’m a big fan of Kevin Can Fxck Himself, which eviscerates the concept).
The Clampetts are stupid except for Jed, who, while he may not understand things, is generally wise to what is going on.
Green Acres has a lot of stupid characters, but they’re fine, especially since the one “smart” character – Oliver – is ultimately as ridiculous as the others, who understand that their reality was skewed.
This is what I was referring to. I found According to Jim appalling. Other shows like King of Queens and Kevin Can Wait are from the same mold.
Kevin in Kevin Can Fxck Himself is also the same, but most of the show is from the point of view of his wife, who is plotting his murder (for good reason).
This is what annoys me. I can handle stupid people who at least acknowledge that they aren’t as smart as everyone else. It’s when they insist that they aren’t stupid that they cross a line.
Idiocracy had almost the entire cast playing stupid people, but they were tolerable because they largely recognized that they were stupid, and at least tried to overcome that.
Strictly for the purposes of fiction, I define a “stupid” character as one who does not learn. All-too-often, this makes the character immune to the consequences of his/her stupidity while others suffer; even worse is when the suffering others continue to hang around the stupid character who causes their suffering, resulting in more suffering. That, imo, deprives both characters of any integrity, dignity or appeal.
Stupid characters are de rigueur in comedy and often found in fantasy and adventure stories. While they may or may not be obnoxious on their own, their enduring tolerance by others who repeatedly suffer because of them is imo ultimately “dehumanizing.”
I hate stupid characters, and I didn’t think any of the characters in “Green Acres” were stupid, especially Arnold the pig. They all took advantage of Oliver, who was smart but just didn’t realize he was in an alternate universe.
For me, Bugs over Daffy any day.
What has always amused me about the Green Acres characters is that Lisa, the one who didn’t want to be there, fit in with the locals much better than Oliver, the one who did want to be there.
Sam Drucker never seemed particularly stupid to me. Mr. Kimball must have been able to graduate from college, since that’s required to be a county agent even out in the sticks.
I would never call Abe Maisel stupid. He’s a mathematics professor and shows a lot of intelligence though it’s also tempered with some stubbornness and a lot of “stuck in his ways”-ness.
I think stupid characters are funny at times but I also think it’s limited. With an ongoing series, the writers have to keep showing the character being stupid and the stupidity ends up increasing as time goes on, which leads to Flanderization. Speaking of Flanderization, a good example of this is Homer Simpson. He’s gotten stupider along the way and some of it’s funny, but I think the writers will forget to temper that with his more positive qualities – he does love Marge and he ultimately wants to take care of his family. Some of his antics are funny though.
