Do you live your life without fear?

[BACI]

I’ve never given myself over to religious practice, but my casual observation of many people’s relationship with their various faiths is that their behavior is often based on the belief that if they do something wrong, then Og will “get ‘em”. Divine retribution, if you subscribe to it, must be a powerful motivator.

Others might feel an aversion to the perceived repercussions of karmic justice, or other irrational modifiers of behaviour. From personal experience, fear of looking foolish, or of losing my job has from time to time stopped me from speaking up about something about which I feel strongly.

Living a life in full knowledge of choices, and without fear of consequence must be empowering, mustn’t it? But how many can honestly say they live their lives that way?

[Magiver]

I think karma will usually catch up to people who are consistent with their actions. You rob a bunch of banks, eventually you get caught for robbing banks. Basic law of probability.

[dropzone]

There are many things that inspire fear that are not supernatural. I pay my electrical bill because I fear that, if I do not, I won’t be able to join you folks on a daily basis. Unless I pay my outstanding library fines, of course.

[BACI]

Is that karma or the criminal justice system catching up with their actions? I understand a rational motivator, like “If I do X, I will end up in jail. I don’t want to end up in jail, so I won’t do X”, but I guess I was thinking about more nuanced behaviors. Extending perhaps to prejudices or preferences that when taken can exclude a world of other possibility and richness.

[Der_Trihs]

Everyone psychologically healthy lives with fear; it’s an essential part of human judgement. It’s just that most of the time, it’s no more than a vague concern leading to caution. Like checking the truth of what people say in case they were wrong, or lying; as opposed to having paranoid fantasies that everyone is out to get you. Caution is still fear; it’s just not extreme fear.

[Kobal2]

I do live with the constant (and, for the most part, realized) fear of not living up to my own principles and moral diktats. Or not all of them, at the very least. Fear of ridicule is also a big one, as is fear of turning into my father. OTOH, “universal” fears of losing life, job, lifestyle, health or relatives/friends I absolutely don’t feel. Que sera, sera. I’ll pass water under that bridge when I burn it, you know ? I can only really ever hope to control the now, and even then barely.

Re kharmic retribution, I’m totally neurotic : I really, really wish there was such a thing as Justice with a J, or a final judgment of some kind, especially that there were consequences to wrongs and evils that society and its laws either don’t care about or can’t do anything about. But I “know” there isn’t.
Which is fucking depressing some of the time, and bloody hilarious the rest of it.

[ITR_champion]

@BACI

I’ve never given myself over to religious practice, but my casual observation of many people’s relationship with their various faiths is that their behavior is often based on the belief that if they do something wrong, then Og will “get ‘em”. Divine retribution, if you subscribe to it, must be a powerful motivator.

Others might feel an aversion to the perceived repercussions of karmic justice, or other irrational modifiers of behaviour. From personal experience, fear of looking foolish, or of losing my job has from time to time stopped me from speaking up about something about which I feel strongly.

Living a life in full knowledge of choices, and without fear of consequence must be empowering, mustn’t it? But how many can honestly say they live their lives that way?

Broadly speaking, when I converted from atheism to Christianity the amount of fear I experienced went way down. In the old days I had neurotic fears about any number of things, particularly those relating to social interactions. For example, I would spend hours (no exaggeration) proofreading my e-mails to make absolutely, positively certain that they didn’t contain typos, because I was certain that any mistake would be deeply humiliating. Likewise, I very rarely made phone calls because I was afraid of making verbal slips. After conversion, everything suddenly fell into its proper perspective. I understood that no one cares a nickel whether I spell latter with only one ‘t’.

This would not imply that I fear nothing or that anyone should fear nothing. People should be afraid of following wrong causes, of spending their lives doing pointless jobs, of conforming to an unjust society, of being sucked down by lethargy, or of letting pride get the better of them. Nonetheless, I believe that people who truly follow the laws of God find their fear diminishing the more they do so. For instance, Rev. Martin Luther King, Jr. presumably guessed (correctly) that he would eventually be killed because of his dedication to justice, but he had nothing to be afraid of.

[Burton]

I saw an article recently about a study that found religious people feared/fought death more than the non believers. That seems somewhat contradictory.

[Bryan_Ekers]

Hey, I’m just waitin’ for Abin Sur to deliver my ring.

[smiling_bandit]

@Burton

I saw an article recently about a study that found religious people feared/fought death more than the non believers. That seems somewhat contradictory.

Why should it be so? We know that we must prepare for it with all our hearts, fight it will all our wills, and yet dive into it eagerly. Christianity is contradition, and contradiction is a difficult road to walk.

[Half_Man_Half_Wit]

I think people who claim that they have no fear are just afraid of admitting it.

[Lakai]

@Burton

I saw an article recently about a study that found religious people feared/fought death more than the non believers. That seems somewhat contradictory.

I don’t think so. I think that many people fail to live up to the moral obligations of their religion and are worried about what that might mean when they die. No one is a saint you know.

The atheists should not be worried. No matter what we do we all end up in the same place. It makes no sense to worry about something you have no control over. If you actually believe you can control your fate after death, then you’ll live a life constantly in doubt, which will lead to a lot of worrying.

@BACI

Living a life in full knowledge of choices, and without fear of consequence must be empowering, mustn’t it? But how many can honestly say they live their lives that way?

My ethical standards are not based on fear. I don’t feel fear when I act immorally, just guilt.

My actions, of course, are guided in fear. I’m a very cautious person. Perhaps, as a result of a series of unhealthy experiences, a little too cautious. Most of the time I fail to live up to my moral standards out of fear, but that’s different from following them out of fear.

[begbert2]

@Lakai

The atheists should not be worried. No matter what we do we all end up in the same place. It makes no sense to worry about something you have no control over. If you actually believe you can control your fate after death, then you’ll live a life constantly in doubt, which will lead to a lot of worrying.

We can be afraid of pain, though, and most of the ways to get dead involve enduring some of that. (Though that may be erroneously conflating aversion and fear, though. I am averse to dying and leaving loved ones behind to mourn, but it doesn’t actually cause me fear.)

[kanicbird]

@BACI

I’ve never given myself over to religious practice, but my casual observation of many people’s relationship with their various faiths is that their behavior is often based on the belief that if they do something wrong, then Og will “get ‘em”. Divine retribution, if you subscribe to it, must be a powerful motivator.

Others might feel an aversion to the perceived repercussions of karmic justice, or other irrational modifiers of behaviour. From personal experience, fear of looking foolish, or of losing my job has from time to time stopped me from speaking up about something about which I feel strongly.

Living a life in full knowledge of choices, and without fear of consequence must be empowering, mustn’t it? But how many can honestly say they live their lives that way?

Most of my fears have gone away in coming to the Lord Jesus and I feel much free’er then I ever have. I have experienced times where man has tried to hurt me, I have found that either they are totally unable to, or they may appear to hurt me but the pain and discomfort is greatly reduced, though sometimes what you have to go through totally sucks, you know that God will take you though it.

Ps 27:1 The LORD is my light and my salvation— whom shall I fear? The LORD is the stronghold of my life— of whom shall I be afraid?

[Der_Trihs]

@Lakai

My ethical standards are not based on fear. I don’t feel fear when I act immorally, just guilt.

But if you didn’t have fear, that would make no difference. First, because you wouldn’t fear the guilt resulting from an action ( which means you wouldn’t refrain from it ). Second, you probably wouldn’t worry about the consequences at all; worry is fear.

And third, you likely wouldn’t feel guilt, since fear is often ( perhaps always ? )a component of it. “What would mother think ?”, “Am I a bad person for doing this ?”, “Will that other person be hurt ?” are all thoughts that involve fear. Fear is an important component of the human thought process; removing it would be crippling. It IS crippling, in those who lose it due to brain damage.

[begbert2]

@Der_Trihs

But if you didn’t have fear, that would make no difference. First, because you wouldn’t fear the guilt resulting from an action ( which means you wouldn’t refrain from it ). Second, you probably wouldn’t worry about the consequences at all; worry is fear.

And third, you likely wouldn’t feel guilt, since fear is often ( perhaps always ? )a component of it. “What would mother think ?”, “Am I a bad person for doing this ?”, “Will that other person be hurt ?” are all thoughts that involve fear. Fear is an important component of the human thought process; removing it would be crippling. It IS crippling, in those who lose it due to brain damage.

Hmm, I think that you may be erroneously conflating aversion and fear. Certainly you are describing emotions and reactions that I do not label as “fear”.

[Der_Trihs]

@begbert2

Hmm, I think that you may be erroneously conflating aversion and fear.

Aversion to anything that isn’t immediate or aesthetic ( like a bad taste, pain, or ugliness ) is fear. Someone without fear due to brain damage will engage in acts that they know will lead to disaster, but they won’t care because they have no fear. Or they simply won’t even think about future consequences, about even the possibility of failure or danger.

Emotions, including fear, are a fundamental part of human reasoning. Losing one or all of them cripples human reason like chopping off limbs cripples the body.

[Lakai]

@Der_Trihs

But if you didn’t have fear, that would make no difference. First, because you wouldn’t fear the guilt resulting from an action ( which means you wouldn’t refrain from it ). Second, you probably wouldn’t worry about the consequences at all; worry is fear.

And third, you likely wouldn’t feel guilt, since fear is often ( perhaps always ? )a component of it. “What would mother think ?”, “Am I a bad person for doing this ?”, “Will that other person be hurt ?” are all thoughts that involve fear. Fear is an important component of the human thought process; removing it would be crippling. It IS crippling, in those who lose it due to brain damage.

When I’m faced with a moral choice and I think about doing something wrong, I feel guilty immediately. I don’t get scared that I will feel guilty in the future. That just never happens to me.

[elelle]

A couple of thoughts on Fear:

When the horrible 9/11 trajedy happened, I wasn’t whupped up into a reaction of fear. It was an awful , horrid event, and I sympathized and agonized over the death and destruction, but it did not put me into a state of fear. And, perhaps that would be different if I lived in NYC, and had direct experience of the event. I wasn’t numb to it at all, though, and tried to understand it better through other people’s experiences.

But, it never made me fearful enough to go with the program that followed: ie; War on Iraq. I was amazed to see that whole scenario unfold, and thought it was playing on fear, unfounded. It really seemed so absurd. Now, the playing on Fear is more understood.

Shifting to another Fear mode, Death: Today, in talking to coworkers about burial, we discussed ground burying vs cremation, vs, whatever alternative. I thought thatSky Burial was most appealing to me, particularly because I admire vultures, and would be glad to see my remains fuel one last beautiful flight. Young 20’s coworker was aghast, not in a Christian burial sense, but in an Oogy sense.

And, I explained it in a sense of No Fear after the body goes, that my body is just meat, and I’d rather have it go to some good at the end, whether by vulture, or, my other choice, giving it up to a medical school or science to dissect for good benefit. No fear there. Yet, at work, everyone thought that was odd. Seems like that might be an ultimate fear. Whatever, when I’m gone, this hunka swell vehicle might as well be of some use in it’s afterstate.

Fear of Aging: Relates to the above. Yep, whatever; I’m female, 47. I’m seeing some wrinkles and sag, but am not abjectly fearful and horrified about what other people think about that. That’s another Fear Drag that fuels a lot of Crap and insecurity, especially with women, to shell out the $$$. I’d rather spend the money to travel, learn, and take what I hope will be a great Badlands face as far as I can to learn.

Dick Cheney, on the other hand, is one of the few people that makes me cringe in Fear, because what he’s done has passed as acceptable

[Zoe]

Senior citizen here. There is some truth to the notion that it is good for you sometimes to “feel the fear and do it anyway.” I’m not talking about foolishness such as driving 120 on the interstate. But taking reasonable risks with things that you are a little afraid of doing. There is sort of a natural high that comes with facing some of these fears.