Not quite like that, I am after all a Scotsman.
Speaking of which, I’m not terribly patriotic on a Scots or British level. But I do like the place - I’m lucky to live in a very beautiful part of the world.
Oh but you should be, think Braveheart and Henry V.
Think Shakespeare,Burns, Yeats and so many more
Think of the heritage this small island of ours has, think of the poets, scientists, scholars that this country of ours has spawned.
Be proud that you are a Scotsman and be even more proud that you are a Briton
Yeah, but I can’t really feel pride in the works of others. I do get your point though, we’ve been a creative lot over the years.
Each and every person has the right to feel pride in the achievments and works of his/her fellow countrymen/women.
This applies no matter the country of their birth.
Creative is putting it mildly old chap.
On an apologetic note. I confess, that despite travelling the world, I have never visited Scotland…I’ve eaten Haggis tho’…does that count?
Traditional British understatement, my dear fellow.
You should give it a go now that you’ve time on your hands. There are some remarkable places here. If you ever get the chance, drop us an email and I’ll pass on recommendations.
Consider your offer taken up and thanks a bunch…
Now then all together “Rule Brittania…”
I feel very lucky to have been born on this piece of dirt, especially after having lived in the third world. I have a lot of admiration for the US Constitution and for the guys who had the wisdom and foresight to write it. I feel great about my ability to say what I want, believe what I want, participate in the political process and be able to call the President a red-assed baboon if I want to. I love living here. I wouldn’t want to live anywhere else.
I don’t get a lot of the patriotism thing, though. I don’t get misty when the flag goes by. I don’t particularly care if the US wins gold medals at the Olympics. I don’t feel “pride” about America’s power and wealth because I don’t feel like I had anything to do with it. I guess i love my country, but it’s a mixed kind of love. It’s the kind of love people might have for imperfect parents.
Take that back, you bastard. How DARE you imply that the baboons are responsible for this admnistration? What have they EVER done to you? :mad:
Country love is one thing but this is just another way to seperate people of the planet. It doesn’t matter what country you are in or have come from and it irrelavent if you love it or hate. Lines on the map and are just control tools to organize one belief against another. Human is Human regardless of orgin…period. Get this straight people and make it the foundation for all future thinking and acitng…
If you thinking stalls on this type of seperation of humans by which country they come from then the Human Race will never become united and war will prevail along with greed, discrimination, hate, racism, and Peace will only be a fleeting thought. No peace can come from seperation of people based upon the above mentioned condiions. If Love of your Country is so important to you as the defining fulcrum of determining a patroit amoung the people and used to sort one another then your test is flawed and so might be the belief and person promoting it… Warning there are other people out there who still have hate in their heart and wish to find it company so its not so lonely in their wallow of life.
I may be an American because I was born under the laws of being on its soil at the time of birth but I definatly hate how my “so called” country has evolved, Greed will be its downfall and we are on the slippery side of the slope now and we all know where this leads…just look at where the Romans are now…??? anyone… anyone…Bueller … Bueller… crickets in the background…was that a pin dropping… Impeach Bush before her kills more of your children…what a bunch of idiots…
TY RDM
Country love is one thing but this is just another way to seperate people of the planet. It doesn’t matter what country you are in or have come from and its irrelavent if you love it or hate it. Lines on the map are just control tools to organize one belief against another. Human is Human regardless of origin…period. Get this straight people and make it the foundation for all future thinking and acitng…
If your thinking stalls on this type of seperation of humans by which country they come from, then the Human Race will never become united and war will prevail along with greed, discrimination, hate, racism, and Peace will only be a fleeting thought.
No peace can come from seperation of people based upon the above mentioned condiions. If Love of your Country is so important to you, as the defining fulcrum of determining a patroit amoung the people, and used to sort one another then your test is flawed and so might be the belief and person promoting it…
Warning there are other people out there who still have hate in their heart and wish to find it company so it’s not so lonely in their wallow of life.
I may be an American because I was born under the laws of being on its’ soil at the time of birth, but I definatly hate how my “so called” country has evolved, Greed will be its downfall and we are on the slippery side of the slope now and we all know where this leads…just look at where the Romans are now…??? anyone… anyone…Bueller … Bueller… crickets in the background…was that a pin dropping…
Impeach Bush before he kills more of your children…what a bunch of idiots…
TY RDM
So that’s a no then?
Yes, I love my country even as I acknowledge its faults.
The sources of patriotism vary with each individual, of course. For me, it’s a love of, and loyalty to, a country with a wise and time-tested Constitution which has (with some setbacks, to be sure) ensured freedom for all its citizens. A country which played a key role in winning two world wars, which ensured freedom for millions more. A country which has (largely) welcomed immigrants and provided opportunities they could find nowhere else. A country based upon the rule of law, however often we fall short of that ideal. A country which has long been a leader in science, technology, medicine, and exploration. A country whose history encompasses such gifted and inspiring people as George Washington, Abraham Lincoln, Susan B. Anthony, Joshua Lawrence Chamberlain, Thomas Edison, Martin Luther King Jr., John F. Kennedy, Neil Armstrong and Jim Lovell, not to mention Theodore, Franklin and Eleanor Roosevelt, and so many more.
When all is said and done, I love my country for having given my family and me a chance to grow, learn and live in peace.
I love my country and genuinely believe it is, for all its many faults, the best in all of human history, but I don’t think any the worse of those in other countries who believe otherwise. That’s as it should be. And as anything good can be taken to extremes, when patriotism veers into xenophobia, count me out.
I’ve sworn two sacred oaths in my lifetime: to my wife when we got married, and to “preserve, protect and defend the Constitution of the United States.” I’m glad for both.
The most common patriotic/idiotic ramble I witness (unfortunately) is the response given if there is a confusion regarding nationality…e.g they are mistaken for an American.
The result is hilariously ironic, in the sense that in ranting and raving utilizing all the known popular American-Canadian cultural differences…they actually morph into the stereotypical American…the one they profess to be so much different from.
…and don’t get me started on those backpack flags… :smack:
It was no different nine years ago. In all honesty, your comment strikes me as every bit as surreal as saying “Canada is smaller than Belgium,” or “Canada is south of the Equator.”
That said, it IS unquestionably a national myth Canadians like to latch onto that we aren’t loudly or openly patriotic. It may be that you remember the myth as reality, by virtue of not having lived here for awhile, but make no mistake about it; it is utterly false. Canadians are extremely, chauvinistically patriotic.
You do remember Canada Day fireworks, yes? Stuff like that? Come on, you lived here for 38 years and NEVER saw a display of Canadian patriotism? You don’t remember September 28, 1972?
I am reminded of the time a Bloc Quebecois MP complained about the overuse of Canadian flags at the Canadian block of the Olympic Village in Nagano. She was roundly shouted down, of course. The thing is, they showed a picture of it, and even as a loyal Canadian I was kind of turned off by it. There were thousands of flags attached to every available surface. It was like they were trying to occupy Japan. That was nine years ago, by the way.
My sister in law actually had a Canadian flag tattooed on her. I asked her if there was perhaps some import law she was trying to meet by certifying herself as Canadian, or if she was afraid she might forget her own nationality and wanted to have a visual reminder. Apparently, it’s the most popular tattoo at university. Jesus Christ.
Perception is everything, I guess. When you live below the poverty line for 38 years, you don’t get to experience the country the way others do. You’re entitled to your interpretation of my comments, but they are no less valid for me than yours are for you. Right?
Of course I saw fireworks. I don’t know how to equate burning gun powder with love of country, though. How would you describe a display of patriotism? I never heard any of that knee-jerk crap like “Canada: My country. Love it or leave it.” The Canadian patriotism I remember was understated, unspoken. Unfortunately, it wasn’t about how great it was to be a Canadian, it was about how great it was not to be American.
That was the week when my father put me in the hospital for coming home late for supper. I was thirteen years old.
So you’re the Canadian version of Der Trihs, eh?
No. I’m basing it on how Canadians have, for most of my life, voted in federal political parties whose principles I agree with. I’m basing it on the opinion polls I read about where the majority of Canadians share my beliefs.
Um. No. I was glad then as I am now that we are, on the whole, not a nation of prejudice and hatred.
He was being political; I expect that of politicians. However it was the Liberals under Martin who initiated and passed the legislation.
I’m talking about Canadians in their regular lives, though Vancouver and Toronto are starting to show disturbing trends. I hope they can be reversed.
:rolleyes:
Probably. I hated living in Calgary and left as soon as was practicable. I’d never live there again.
I can’t imagine it will go backward.
I think that prejudice and hatred belong nowhere and, yes, if a person proudly proclaims either, I’d prefer he move elsewhere.
That question makes no sense.
I don’t believe I said anyplace that I am actually Canada.
And you’d be wrong. As mentioned, I left Calgary and would leave Canada if social conservative views became the norm.
I’d have some qualms about living in the United States, at least in the ‘red’ states. I’d probably be happy in most of the other countries you mention if I decided to leave here. In fact, I have toyed with the idea of getting my EU work permit (by virtue of having had British grandparents) and living in Europe for a while. I loved it when I visited.
Ah but you could drink original Heinekin and have those gorgeous Dutch breakfasts and go have Rijsttafel and use the booze vending machines (if they’re still there) visit other European countries easily!! I think it would be fun to live there! But I very much enjoy new and different things. As it is, I’m living in my third Canadian city and there’s a lot of things I miss from the ones I’ve left but every new place has new treasures.
This is very telling. I think the problem we Canadians have (and I’m going to include fishbicycle here, even though he’s been living in the US for some years) is that we hear “patriotism” and we think of it in terms of the American patriotism that spills over the border every day through various media. It is very much a “America: Love it or leave it,” and “My country right or wrong,” and “These colors don’t run” kind of thing. It is standing at attention with your hand over your heart when your national anthem plays and a military color guard marches. It’s also holding the flag up as a sacred symbol that must be treated with respect and a certain way; as well as considering a piece of paper in a Washington museum to be the greatest document ever written in the history of the world.
Because we equate those things with patriotism and we don’t do those sorts of things up here (and frankly, I think many Canadians consider them silly, hence the “lucky we’re not American” sentiment) we don’t tend to see ourselves as terribly patriotic. This, I suspect, is what fishbicycle is getting at.
RickJay makes a good point too. We are patriotic in our own way, sometimes sickeningly so, and it has increased over the years–when I was a kid, there were no Canada Day fireworks, except perhaps on Parliament Hill. Now, you can’t get away from the damn things, and if I choose not to go to the local show on 1 July (they don’t interest me much, really), I’m seen as not being a good Canadian. At other times, we are patriotic in a more subtle sort of way, as when it is inferred that you can only be a good Canadian if you believe in government-run health care, multiculturalism, gay marriage, and international peacekeeping. You don’t think those are good things? You must be a traitor! Or an American.
As for Quiddity, I have to say this–I don’t necessarily disagree with your views and ideals, but if all you base your “love of country” on are the isms du jour, then I’d suggest that you are not in love with Canada, but intead, with nothing more than ideas that are currently in vogue. You do state that “…I left Calgary and would leave Canada if social conservative views became the norm,” which I’m taking to mean just what it says. With all due respect, Quiddity, and you are free to disagree with me all you want, I suggest that “Canadian patriotism” is more than loving the isms to which Canada subscribes today; rather, it is a knowledge of this country: its people, culture, geography, what it has done well and poorly throughout its history, and choosing to stand by it because of (or in spite of) all these things. To me anyway, that, more than professing certain values and ideas, is real Canadian patriotism. Running away to live in a place that is more in line with your values and ideals, isn’t.
Er… something overt done as an expression of admiration for one’s country?
Is that so? You were here in 1995, during the referendum. You don’t recall that sort of talk? You don’t remember “My Canada Includes Quebec”? You don’t recall the big pro-federalist rally in Montreal that was in the news so much?
You didn’t notice ANY of that? Never saw a Canadian flag? Never saw people wearing poppies leading up to Remembrance Day? Maybe you were poor, but you never saw any of that? Jesus, were you living as a hermit on Banks Island?
When you don’t know when you’ll eat again, and you have no prospects for anything, you have no friends and no family and no future, it’s easy to be unconcerned about what the people in suits are arguing about.
The kind of concerns you mention were worlds away from the kind of existence I endured, not as a hermit on Banks Island, but as a hermit at the Salvation Army hostel or in an illegal basement bedsit in Hamilton. All the worst things that ever happened to me, happened in Canada. I didn’t get to experience normal until I was able to come to that awful (so we were taught) America place. Being here isn’t anywhere close to as bad as it is painted Up North. I have a life now. I could never forge one in Canada. So fervent patriotism for my homeland isn’t in my vocabulary.
The guy who advocates murder and terror? Uhhhh, no, I’m not a big fan of people getting blown up.
It’s virtually impossible that the majority of Canadians could share all your beliefs, and if you do, as you claim to, support gay marriage, we are not far removed from when they most certainly did not hold that belief - that’s a VERY recent change, like in the last ten years. Hell, fifteen to twenty years ago it wasn’t even a seriously discussed issue. Did you not love Canada then? Or did you just happen to change your mind on that recently?
I’m sorry to harp on this point but if it’s your position that you love your country because it happens to currently agree with you on major issues of social policy, it’s a perfectly legitimate question to ask if you loved it five years ago when it didn’t.
The Liberals were also the party who refused to allow Jews fleeing the Nazis to come here. Let’s not fool ourselves into thinking a political party is some sort of consistent entity; the Liberals do not, historically, have any better a record of tolerance than the Tories do, and they’re well behind the NDP. The fact of the matter is that five years ago the Liberal Party opposed gay marriage. They changed their minds only as a matter of political convenience. In 2002, did you or did you not love Canada, despite the fact that gay marriage was not legally recognized?
Toronto’s showing “Disturbing trends”? Like what? The crime rate isn’t going up.
Toronto’s crime rate, as well as that for most of Canada, peaked sixteen years ago and is quite a bit lower now than it was then.
But that isn’t what I asked; I asked if you felt that anyone who does not share your views is a bad Canadian. Surely you don’t think everyone who disagrees with you on one issue or another espouses hatred and prejudice, or that there isn’t room for reasonable debate in issues such as employment equity, immigration policy, social welfare programs, or aboriginal affairs?
The question makes perfect sense, but I’ll rephrase it; millions of Canadians do not think gay marriage should be legally equivalent to “straight” marriage. In fact, the issue is quite a close call. Do you or do you not think those people are worthy to live in Canada?