A little housekeeping before we begin. By “your” country, I mean either the nation-state of which you are a citizen, or that in which you permanently reside, as appropriate. If you’re a US citizen currently teaching ESL in China but intending to return to America, then your country is the United States. Contrariwise, if you were born in Cairo but live in Paris and intend to do so until you die, then your country is France, not Egypt. As for the word “love”, I’m not going to define it; each poster may do so for him-, her-, hir-, or itself.* And now back to the thread questions.
[ol]
[li]Do you love your country?[/li][li]If so, can you articulate why?[/li][li]If not, why not?[/li][li]If you don’t love your country, why do you still live there?[/li][li]In what country would you prefer to live, given your druthers?[sup]†[/sup][/li][/ol]
Finally I have a request. In your first post, please concentrate on explaining your own reasons for feeling as you do rather than criticizing anyone else’s opinion.[sup]‡[/sup] The most eloquent posters get lemon cheesecake[sup]‡[/sup] and hot chocolate. And by hot chocolate I mean brandy, or perhaps Scotch. No beer, though. Beer’s gross.
I have the feeling I missed a pronoun option here but can’t figure out what it is. Ah well.
[sup]†[/sup] Please restrict yourself to currently-existing, non-fantasy countries; no Narnia, no 1922 Soviet Union, no Gor.[sup][/sup] Why? Eat your broccoli, that’s why.
[sup]‡[/sup] I include this admonition not because I expect anyone to listen to it, but because I haven’t gone off on a good insane RhymerRant in almost a month and need an excuse.
[sup]‡[/sup] Obviously I judge posts for eloquence. Now eat your broccoli, damn it!
[sup][/sup] Actually anyone who expresses a desire to live in Gor should go ahead and say so, as that will give me the opportunity to unleash the bees.
Love? I guess, it’s that place I miss when I’m away.
It’s that place where I’m instantly understandable and where I instantly understand things that “outsiders” have serious trouble grokking. Whenever I’ve been in places where that instant connection was present, they’re places I loved. Stuff like “the landscapes I grew up with” I’ve discovered aren’t that important (although I’ll always feel strange in places with flat horizons), and the good food… dunnow man, I’ve never been in a place where we got that kind of connection and the food was bad.
Well, there are a lot of things about it that could be better. But getting occasional urges to ask my neighbors. Very. Slowly. Whether that bout of stupidity was natural or practiced don’t really count as not loving it, I guess.
I live there legally but I’m not currently there. And of course, I can only be in one of the places I happen to love. I’m working on that whole polylocation thing but it will take a while.
We’d have to start by defining country, I’m not using the “nation-state” definition. Guanacaste (Costa Rica), Houston (Texas, I still regret not having been able to take that job), Scotland, Lombardia (Italy)…
United States (because you really should have had a question about which country we’re talking about.)
Yes
Because we’re a pretty good country. We’ve got a government that’s mostly stable and democratic. We have a legal system that generally maintains order and protects our rights. We’ve got a good economy. Overall, we’ve been pretty good about welcoming newcomers into our society. We’ve done more good than bad in our foreign policy. We’ve made some mistakes (some of them pretty bad) but we’ve recognized these mistakes and worked on fixing them.
3-5. n/a
Sure, why not? Although it’s not very British to be proud of ones country, we prefer just to muddle along rather than express patriotic sentiments. Cynicism is one of our foremost national traits.
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[li]If so, can you articulate why?[/li][/quote]
England is a fine place and worth fighting for. She has treated me well. Also we have Nectar Points, they’re quite handy.
[quote]
[li]In what country would you prefer to live, given your druthers?[/li][/quote]
If I could, the United States, becoming a citizen with the rights and duties of an American. Cecil Rhodes said once that to be born English was to win first prize in the lottery of life. These days I think to be born American is. Canada would be my cup of tea too.
0a) United States (born & raised, don’t live there)
1a) Yes-ish. It’s a love-hate relationship. It’s complicated.
2a) My country is beautiful, interesting, and comforting because of its familiarity. My parents live there.
3a) Politics, mostly. I find the US worship of itself (flags and people in uniform) creepy, and I find the country increasingly less free. Not in the crazy libertarian sense, just more generally in contrast to the stated ideals. Plus, as a gay guy, I really resent being a second-class citizen.
4a) I got the hell out of Dodge 3 years ago. Glad I did. No offense. I still vote and file taxes, and will until I die or renounce citizenship.
5a & b) I don’t know. Italy if I were single, Canada as it stands. (Italy isn’t terribly gay-friendly and I wouldn’t want to do it if I weren’t single or in a relationship with an Italian. Plus, current spouse doesn’t speak the language there.)
0b) Canada (heritage citizenship, now live here)
1b) Mostly, yes.
2b) Largely, the differences with the US are in the direction I want society to go. The negative changes I’ve seen in the US in my lifetime are here, too, but lighter. Plus, no second-class status here: makes a huge difference.
3b) So far, the only negatives are the same as the US, but less intense. Plus the weather: bleah compared to home.
4b) n/a
Largely because it’s my country. If I was born in any half decent country I’d probably love it. But the U.S. or A. is better than the rest. We are a shining beacon of liberty in this world. Anyone can be an American, and almost everyone wants to be one. America is a country founded on the principle of becoming more perfect, and though it’s been painful at times we continue on that course. On top of all that the US is not Canada.
Do you love your country?
Born and raised in US of A. At most I feel bemused tolerance.
If so, can you articulate why?
No love.
If not, why not?
I very much disagree with past and present political and social policies in America. I hate our sordid, genocidal history, our proclivity towards meddling in the affairs of other countries and contributing to supporting destructive and genocidal rebellions and regimes in order to further our economic interests, our current status as warmongering military superpower, and how epically wasteful and profit-obsessed both our economy and citizens have become. Most of all I hate the ridiculous pride so many people have in such an ugly machine who gives or cares so little for the average person, and how easily the atrocities committed since the days of the colonies, by individuals, American government, covert operations acting in its interest, and corporations based on our soil, are sanitized and forgotten. Feh. Disgusting.
If you don’t love your country, why do you still live there?
Emigrating is very complicated, and I have no career or particular skills which would make it easier. Plus my boyfriend, family ans friends live here, and people are what I care most for in life.
In what country would you prefer to live, given your druthers?
Finland, or Estonia. Now those are decent, truly advanced countries (and smaller and more sparsely populated than Norway, which I like as well).
The climate is great, winters are mild - no snow (except up in the mountains which is close enough for those who want to go skiing) , summers can be hot but we have airconditioning and beaches. The outdoor lifestyle is the way to go.
The people are generally laid back and relaxed. I can walk around the streets in the CBD at 2 in the morning half pissed and know that I’m not going to have some douche with a gun get in my face wanting my wallet. I can go to a football game (Aussie Rules) that attracts nearly 100,000 spectators who are not segregated by team but mingled together, drink beer and yell abuse at the umpires and opposition and know that there’s 10’s of thousands of people doing the same thing and there won’t be any angst or gangs wanting to beat up opposition supporters.
I like the multiculturalism, the universal health care, the social security safety net, cricket, the job opportunities and the fact you don’t need a degree to do basic jobs, sunny 16 degree c late autumn days, the massive variety of fresh food and quality places to eat out.
I love it here and wouldn’t want to live anywhere else.
You gotta love it here. It’s huge, diverse and filled with wonderful places and people. For as many downfalls as we have, I think it’s good to remember how much prosperity has occurred because of us. I think the country still has the potential to do truly incredible things but I think much of the frustration experienced by the people here is due to the polarizing government and media. Honestly, if people stopped paying attention to the media, I think it would go a long way towards healing our emotional issues.
I think that lets me do both New Zealand (citizen) and England (permanent resident).
New Zealand Do you love your country?
Almost all of the time. If so, can you articulate why?
It is very beautiful, has good weather, has a varied landscape from the biggest city in the north of the north to the wildness of Fiordland in the south of the south. The people are friendly and optimistic and there is an entrepreneurial spirit. If not, why not?
My home city has been almost destroyed by earthquakes. It feels like I don’t actually have a home to go home to now.
It’s a hell of a long way from anywhere (Australia doesn’t count ;)).
It’s a new country, so you don’t get the sense of history like you do in Europe, for example. If you don’t love your country, why do you still live there?
I don’t live there any more, but I still love it!
England Do you love your country?
Mostly. If so, can you articulate why?
Beautiful countryside, if you get off the motorway you go from pretty village to pretty village. The canals are lovely.
London is one of the capitals of the world and there is so much going on.
So much history, so much culture, so much to do. If not, why not?
People are more pessimistic than New Zealand.
The ‘class system’ is stupid and in my six years’ experience, mostly consists of people who identify as working class making mocking comments about people they perceive to be middle class.
Jeremy Kyle.
The weather. If you don’t love your country, why do you still live there?
We are planning our next move (to the US) but the good has definitely outweighed the bad here.
In what country would you prefer to live, given your druthers?
I don’t particularly want to live in any one country, I want to explore and experience a number of countries in my lifetime.
Do you love your country? Yes, though not always proud of the place or the people. If so, can you articulate why? I’m an ignorant xenophobe, the USA is familiar and I understand the customs well enough to know where I stand in most situations–that’s comforting to me, there are parts I despise but I don’t go to those places if I can help it. I’d much rather play host to foreigners than to be a guest.
Do you love your country? No British person would admit to that! To us, “loving your country” is uncomfortably close to nationalism. But it’s certainly one of the better countries to live in.
**If so, can you articulate why? **For such a small country, it’s had an enormous impact on world’s history, and a large number of achievements in culture, technology and the arts. All races, religions, sexualities, etc are welcomed, and are protected by law from discrimination. Religion is a private matter, isn’t talked about much, and doesn’t affect lawmaking as much as it does in other countries. And as someone who is currently too ill to work, I am certainly very grateful for universal healthcare and social welfare. Despite what some complainers might say, the NHS is a wonderful thing.
If not, why not? The British people take no pride in themselves or their country – they tend to look and act like slobs, litter everywhere, and leave their buildings to decay and ruin. The class system is alive and well, which kills off any desire for social mobility, because everyone is too busy hating everyone richer or poorer than them. And the cost of living is ridiculously high.
If you don’t love your country, why do you still live there? My friends are here! Besides, I don’t hate the UK anyway, it just has its ups and downs.
In what country would you prefer to live, given your druthers? Canada, because it has the USA’s “can-do” attitude, but is less religious and right-wing. Plus it is a beautiful place and has polar bears!
Do you love your country? Yes, in a subdued and (I hope) realistic way.
**If so, can you articulate why?** It was founded on principles that I admire. It has struggled mightily and paid a huge price to move its reality toward those principles. It has had some success in doing that. It has provided a level of social, educational and financial mobility to my family that I deeply appreciate.
**In what country would you prefer to live, given your druthers?** Australia is probably the only other country that I would be tempted to emigrate to.
Do you love your country? You mean in an unnatural sort of way? I don’t love it in the sense of “America: right or wrong” or “love it or leave it”. I’m not a flag waver, even though I spent a career in the military. But it’s a pleasant place to live, and I prefer it to others.
If so, can you articulate why? I’ve lived in five other countries and visited some 25 others. While I enjoyed those places for various reasons, I’m comfortable here, speak the language and understand the customs in most areas other than Texas.
If not, why not? I detest where politics have gone, the hate speech and anger everywhere, the increasingly insistent religious intrusion into politics, and the violence.
In what country would you prefer to live, given your druthers? Perhaps the UK, but more likely somewhere in France or Tuscany, were I 20 or more years younger. Rio, if I was 20 years old. But I’m happy to stay put at this stage of my life.
Do you love your country? I think ‘quietly, modestly proud’ would be a better descriptor. I love my Mrs and my dog, I ‘like’ my country. I’m British.
If so, can you articulate why? I think the British people, for all their individual faults, as a collective have much great spirit to admire – creative, self deprecating, inventive, entrepreneurial, brave, resilient, humorous, adventurous, tolerant and welcoming. I may not always admire the leaders from history who built the empire, but I can look at the normal people who resisted the Blitz with huge pride.
If not, why not? The weather can be a drag when you just want to have a BBQ. The expense of London is really depressing. The drunken idiots who fill the bars of the Costa Del Sol and make the rest of the world think that’s what we are all actually like.
If you don’t love your country, why do you still live there? I DO like it. It’s home and it’s comfortable and it’s never boring.
In what country would you prefer to live, given your druthers? I’m not sure there is one. I could happily live in New York or Sydney, cultures I feel very comfortable with, but having flirted with the idea of living in Italy and realised that it’s fine for a holiday but is really so parochial, I can’t see why I would leave my vibrant, fascinating little island. I’m also gay, and living in a country which accepts me and protects me is Very Important.
do I love the us? I don’t think so. we have a lot of both good and bad here.
our foreign policy is more good than bad. we have supported some dictators, but we generally care about human rights. our tertiary education is the best in the world. we contribute heavily to science and medicine. we have great scenery and great large cities.
on the con side we are a plutocracy. our financial system, health care, working class, communication technologies etc are all inferior to the rest of the developed world because of our plutocratic ruling class. people here work longer and have less to show for it than Europeans, the fruits of our labors go to the top. a person working 2000 hours a year will have inferior health care, less mobility, more expensive education, inferior internet/phones, fewer vacations and less security in retirement than a European working 1500 hours a year.
granted that may not apply across the board but it is generally true. we work more and have less to show for it.
plus our politics is dysfunctional. and religious extremism is more acceptable here. people here are far more likely to deny evolution and climate change. our media is a joke.
if I could I’d move to scandanavia or Australia. but I don’t have enough points to emigrate there.
Do you love your country? I am quite fond of it, however “love” is a sentiment that I apply to family.
**If so, can you articulate why? ** While I was not born there and I grew up abroad, my relatives and family are from the USA. There are seemingly endless things to see and do in the US I and always impressed of the diversity of cultures there.
If not, why not? Our politicians in Washington have to be the worst I have ever seen. For reason I cannot fathom, they get reelected despite their obvious lack of common sense. It just seems to me that the voters don’t want a functioning government.
**If you don’t love your country, why do you still live there? ** Friends and family are there. Despite a handful of flaws, it is still a country to be proud of.
In what country would you prefer to live, given your druthers? Either Australia for the great weather and friendly people or England/Ireland/Scotland for the history.
Oh, and cheesecake must always be baked…