Do you think it's wrong to let young children watch violent movies?

In My Humble Opinion
21

MEKHAZZIO –

:: snort nnngnt! Pthoo! :: Yep. Sure do.

Baloney.

It “solves” the problem of raising children who think that physical violence is an acceptable problem solving tactic --which, in society at large, it is not. I think a “zero-tolerance” policy means that children learn that actions have consequences and that violence will not be tolerated. I think it makes much more difficult to “torment” each other, and at the very least makes them be more creative about it. I have no idea what you mean by “using the policy itself to achieve that torment.” And you it can will and does happen as if it always happens, or it must. That’s where we disagree. Again, I think you make a large error by assuming that everyone’s experiences must mirror your own.

I never said this. There is no one palliative cure-all for the ills of childhood, no single way to teach every lesson that must be learned. That is no excuse to abandon the task of teaching civility and mutual respect to kids.

Blah blah blah. Again, stopping one form of “abuse” (your word, not mine) is not antithetical to stopping other forms of “abuse.” “You will not hit” is not inconsistent with “you will not say mean vicious things to each other, either.” This is not an all-or-nothing proposition.

I never said “there is no excuse” and I never said “just ignore it,” and I certainly never said the two were comparable statements. I don’t see anything “unrealistic” about “Don’t hit your brother.” I think it’s a statement that likely has to be repeated ad nauseam (at least it was to me), and that there will be repeated consequences for repeatedly breaking the rule (at least there were for me), but the lesson being taught – we do not use violence to problem-solve or to get our own way – is one worth teaching. What ever other problems may exist or how “deep” that problem may go do not change that.

22

Thanks for the varying opinions, though I was hoping this would be more of a poll than a debate.

I think children who are not aware that hitting people is dangerous and very bad by the time they are capable of actually doing harm are suffering from some serious lack of parenting. As far back as I remember I would feel a strong sense of dread when I accidentally made one of my playmates cry. My parents weren’t even big on spanking - I probably was spanked less than ten times by my parents that I can remember, though I’m sure I got swatted quite a few times when I was 2 or 3, and I didn’t always get a spanking for fighting, but my parents really let me know how seriously they disapproved of that kind of behavior.

23

Psychologist Albert Bandura did a study in which two different groups of children were shown a video of adults interacting with an inflatable dummy. In the first group, the video showed the adults acting agressively, punching and kicking the dummy. The second video depicted the adults being kind to the dummy, offering it food, dancing with it, et cetera. It should come as no surprise how each group of children acted when the dummy was actually brought before them. Granted it was only a dummy and not a person, but one only has to look to the phenomenon of “backyard wrestling” to see a correlation. I’m not saying that all kids who are exposed to violent video games and movies will turn into the next Eric Harris or the absence of violent media will produce a stable and productive adult, but I don’t think anyone can deny that in a lot of cases there’s a significant effect.

24

“Sheltering” a kid almost always causes problems later on down the road. That’s always been my observation. In fact, I personally had the exact opposite reaction to “evil TV violence.” Up untill about the 3rd or 4th grade, the ONLY station my mom would let me watch was OPB (Oregon Public Broadcasting… Seseame Street, Mr Rodgers, etc). I got suspended at least 3 times each of those years for starting fights. At the end of that period, my mom let me watch everything, and the fighting dropped off dramatically. Not exactly normal, no, but that’s what happened for me… In fact, it was violent movies and the like that first got me to start looking about at the world as a real place. I even remember the first R-rated movie my mom had rented and let me see, especially a particular scene from Vietnam. It was kind of sobering, and it certainly didn’t make me want to go out and reenact it in any way.

I definatly have to agree about kids knowing about violence and the like already, and they DO know they can get away with it. I’ve personally seen some extreeme behavior from childeren. The simple bullying on a playground rarely if ever gets delt with. Stealing, harrassing, it’s all common, especially early on. It seems MUCH more common early on, in fact, because most of it is dismissed as harmless fun or some other crap like that. And if a kid goes to a teacher (Or some other “authority figure”) to complain about being picked on or harrassed? Not only do they rarely do anything (They may tell the person to stop, but that is as good as doing nothing at all), but then that kid is a “tattle tale” and fair game for EVERYONE. It’s part of the real world that every kid knows, and trying to “shelter” them from this, by treating it as if it’s not there does NOT help when they are confronted with it. Much better they grow up knowing what violence is, and understanding its effects and consequences, instead of stay in the same mindset where school-yard bullying is the solution to all problems with other people. Believe me, that is something MUCH better left in childhood, instead of brought into “adulthood”…

25

Phoenix Dragon, with all due respect, I think you’ve picked two rather extreme examples of bad adult behavior shaping children’s. There is a happy medium between ignoring violence in children and pretending to them that adult violence doesn’t exist. It may indeed be quite common for adults in schools to igmore bullying on the playground. That doesn’t make it right. And it may also happen that some parents overly shelter their kids from media violence as a way of giving themselves a false sense of security about their kids’ “innocence.” These are not the only adult approaches to addressing violence with children, though.

As Jodi has pointed out:

This is a nice complement to what I tried to make clear earlier: kids need to be taught, over and over again, that violence does not solve problems. The teachers who ignore bullying at school and the parents who ignore violence’s existence altogether do the kids no favors in this regard. Of course children are violent to each other (and to adults, too). Of course they often deliberately hurt others. That’s why it’s the adults’ job to step in and demonstrate peaceful means of interaction. Teaching kids is not just a matter of throwing a bunch of words at them. They learn by what you say, but they also learn by what you do, what example you set, what stories you tell, what movies and TV shows you allow them to watch, by what people you allow them to be alone with. When you send your child off to school, and they learn that they can steal and lie and hit without consequence, that doesn’t mean you should just give up trying to teach them NOT to do those things. They may learn, unfortunately, that they can get away with misbehavior in certain settings, but that just makes it all the more important to teach them WHY such things are wrong, so that you can trust them to behave when they are out of your sight.

Like I said before, children are supremely self-centered. Growing up, simplified, is the process of developing empathy.

It’s an extremely difficult task, one that can last until well into the child’s own adulthood. When they are still young and learning the rules that shape and guide the world, I don’t see any benefit to showing them entertainment that counters everything you try to teach day-to-day. I don’t think it’s immoral or anything, and a parent should be the best judge of how developed their child is, and what that kid can handle. If Batz Maru says his kid can handle to shoot-em-up gory stuff, I trust him. But as a general rule? I say keep it away until your kid does, at the very least, possess a sense of empathy, to recognize other’s pain (and joy) and value it as they would their own.

26

I’ve skipped most of the posts in this topic, so forgive me if I’m repeating someone else’s argument. It’s bedtime, and I just want to answer the OP before I shut down for the night.

I hate violence on TV. I personally don’t watch violent movies, and will not even watch horror that has no actual bloodshed. It’s just me. I do read horror stories, and violent books because I can control what I “see” much better. I do believe that some level of violence is acceptable in computer games.

Now, in my HUMBLE opinion, children don’t need to be exposed to violence on television. My best example comes from my fiance’s much younger sisters. At ages 9 and 11 (when I first met them) they wouldn’t watch Mary Poppins with me - they said “Boring”. I couldn’t believe it. At their ages, I used to look forward to Saturday’s midday movie, because it was always a Shirley Temple movie. At age 14, I went to see The Little Mermaid at the cinema - it was another 12 months before I decided I’d outgrown Disney. I was horrified that these children considered children’s movies to be too childish - because they’d been raised on a diet of sex and violence from an early age. I’m going through a second childhood, and while I was bringing home Bedknobs and Broomsticks and Disney’s Robin Hood, these children were rolling their eyes at me, and declaring my videos “too tame”.

Ok, so my viewing tastes aren’t “normal” now, and I’m not a good example of how to censor what your children watch. However, my brother was treated the same as I, and he doesn’t have objections to violent movies now. On the other hand, he was also able to enjoy children’s shows into his early teens because his tastes hadn’t been affected by introducing adult concepts early.

Finally, may I say that I am always horrified by the local television stations who will show footage of humans being slaughtered by their fellow man, horrific scenes of violence that no person should have to be exposed to, and then they will cut a piece of dialogue containing the F word. I’m sorry, but I find death and destruction much more offensive than bad language.

27

I don’t really see it as countering it, really… At the least, not nearly as much as many say. It really depends on the kid. From what I’ve seen, it would seem that it really isn’t a real serious negative effect on most kids, but yes, there are a few out there who wouldn’t do well with it (Though in their case, it’s a WHOLE lot more than just TV violence or the like).

What kind of movies were they interested in, and why? Was it because of sex and violence, or had they just “matured” early past where they were interested in children’s movies, and were now interested in something more “advanced”?

Personally, though, I don’t think it’s fair to judge someone based off assumptions of the kinds of movies someone else thinks they should like. I have friends that find it “horrible” that I don’t like some of the brainless-comedy or brainless-action movies out there, but it’s a simple matter of differing tastes.

In all honesty, from all that’s been said about these kids, it sounds like they simply matured earlier than most (Though that’s a fairly uninformed conclusion, since I don’t know as much about them as you do, obviously :slight_smile: ).

Unfortunatly, “should” doesn’t always happen in real life… :frowning:

28

Hmmm… I wouldn’t say they were “mature” for their ages. Rather, in most other respects, they were typical little girls who just had a taste for action movies. You do understand, of course, that I’m not arguing that they’ve been warped by violence. My argument is that adult movies seem to have ruined children’s movies for them.

They have never had any guidence or supervision in their viewing lives, and have watched all kinds of movies that are inappropriate for their age group. Their mother was here once when they were asking me to put Austin Powers on for them and she forbade it, saying it was too risque for girls their age. She didn’t seem to realise they’d been watching it regularly on cable television at home and were able to quote whole sections of the movie. But the saddest thing is that they think they’re too old for kids movies. You’re only a kid once, and then for less than a decade and a half. You’re an adult for a long time. Let kids enjoy kids movies while they’re young.

29

Fer pete’s sake, we’re talking about VIOLENCE because that’s what the OP was about. I don’t think we should have to apologize for not discussing every issue of problematic childhoods.

It’s like your doctor telling you to quit smoking to improve your health. Will it fix your back acne, your bum knee, your little erectile dysfunction problem? No, probably not. According to the logic you’re proposing, that means the doctor’s advice is worthless or short-sighted.

Protecting children from seeing too many disturbing messages at too young of an age isn’t going to solve every problem with childhood. Some of us, however, believe that it’s valuable to do so. For reasons which have been well-explained (whether or not you agree with the soundness of the premise)

30

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by cazzle *
**

I don’t really think there’s anything wrong with that. People should watch what they like, after all, and I don’t think it’s fair to try and insist on someone liking a particular type of movie “just because”…

31

Well, if I may give another real-life example from the other end of the spectrum:

I allow my children, ages 7 and under, to watch pretty much anything they want to watch. We’ve watched the Alien movies, the Terminator movies, Legend, lot’s of Jackie Chan stuff, as well as just about every Disney movie ever made. Their favorites (other than disney) are the Mask of Zorro and Godzilla. I have only one rule regarding my childrens television viewing:

Don’t believe anything you see on TV.

Thus far, we haven’t had a single “incident”, if you will. They did not start pounding the hell out of each other after watching the Legend of Drunken Master. They didn’t have nightmares after watching Aliens. I don’t think “the difference between fantasy and reality” was a concept they had a hard time understanding.

I have tried to teach them that actions have consequences. If you kick a little girl in the neck (for example):
A) You will be punished. Probably twice, once by the authority “on-site”, and then again by me
B) you’re going to hurt her and make her cry
C) She’s going to be mad at you
D) Her parents will be mad at you

Other people tell me how nice, smart, and well-behaved my children are. So, I like to think I’m doing something right.

I intend to start enrolling them in martial arts programs as soon as they’re old enough (this summer, for the oldest). Might may not always equal right, but it is the last recourse in a pinch on the schoolyard. I want them to continue to be nice, smart, and well-behaved, but I also want to provide them every tool available to be self-confident and not fear the schoolyard.

Finally, to answer the question posed in the OP: I don’t think there’s anything wrong with letting your children watch violent movies. I don’t think there’s anything wrong with preventing your children from watching violent movies. We, as parents, are all different people just as children are all different people. We parents are all doing the same thing, trying to teach our children how to be good people as adults. As long as the results are positive, you must be doing it right. So, keep up the good work!

32

Nah, my four year old has watched Apocalypse Now like 20 times and she’s fine. Sometimes I do wonder why hear teacher keeps asking about her habit of asking for trip wires and Claymores to ‘keep charlie off the perimeter’ of the playground though.

Seriously though – I guess I’m lucky, she can’t even watch ‘Madeline in Paris’ because the ‘bad man’ in it scares her to death. I honestly think it all depends on the child. Some kids are intelligent enough to see it as a movie – others think it is how life actually is – those are the ones who end up shooting up the schools.

33

I guess my take on it would be to parry back the question and ask, Does ANYONE need to be watching violence?

The other day, I was in a dollar theater rewatching O BROTHER, WHERE ART THOU (comes out on video this upcoming week, by the way), and I remarked, again, on the scene where George Nelson is introduced. There he is, hanging out of a moving vehicle, exchanging gunfire with persuing policemen. This is acceptable. Doesn’t raise an eyebrow. Just good clean fun in a comedic vein. Then, Nelson notices the field next to the road, filled with cattle. He expresses his extreme dislike for all that is bovine, and begins machine-gunning the cows. At this, everyone in the audience flinches. There is an audible groan from some. Likewise, later in the film, the evil Bible salesman (John Goodman), beats the holy shit out of two of the main characters, leaving them laying bleeding and stunned. You laugh as Tim Blake Nelson pits his small frame against the huge Goodman. You smirk as George Clooney spews corn from his mouth as he is clobbered. But, then, Goodman finds the frog (Pete) they had in their shoebox and, spitefully, crushes the life from it. Suddenly, the little old lady in the row in front of me stops laughing and gives a petulant, “Ohhhh!”
Do you see what I’m saying. We are innured to violence, to a large degree (whether it was meant to be comedic or not), so long as it is violence against people. I don’t think there is a positive angle to put on a thing like that.

That all said, though, I’ll tell you, I have never believed in shielding my children from any concept. As soon as they could talk and ask questions, I have always delivered answers to the best of my ability. And, if they have asked to watch something that might be considered objectionable by others, I will explain to them that the movie might be scarey. They understood “scarey,” and either consented and watched or we found something else to do. No biggie.

You know what they say…

“Come see the violence inherent in the system.”