Yes. I can’t name a single female relative who hasn’t told me that sometime in my life. No female friends have, but that’s because my family’s behavior taught me to fear women confidants, so I don’t make them into friends close enough to say things like that.
I don’t think she posted the letter to FB so that everyone could comment on a 13-year old girl’s body and breasts. She was trying to call attention to what she thought was an inappropriate and unhealthy attention to body shape from the saleswoman.
Sure, she was naive to think people wouldn’t comment on that - internet lowest common denominator and all that. But it doesn’t mean you have to participate.
I really don’t see anyone harshly picking apart this girl. We’re just saying that formalwear is typically worn with undergarments that make it look smoother and lay better than it does in the photo.
I agree. Shapewear isn’t just about sucking in guts. It also creates a smoother silhouette. If I tried on a form-fitting dress like that and it showed off my panty line, I’d expect the salesperson to suggest something Spanx-y. I’d want them to because I need all the fashion help I can get.
I don’t know if the salesperson was wrong here because I wasn’t there (and I have learned not to automatically believe hysterical one-sided rants on FB, especially when it involves someone’s kid). If she said, “Dayum, girl! You need something for that big ole gut!” then yeah, let’s rake her over the coals. But if the salesperson noticed the girl sucking in her gut in a self-conscious way and that’s what led her to make a suggestion, then big whoop. No, not every 13-year-old girl knows what Spanx are. And neither do their mothers. I can easily imagine another daughter and mother loving the suggestion and not taking any offense.
But there’s an artful way to make a suggestion like this and an inartful way. So it’s not something a person should do lightly.
Eh… it depends. The girl is is pudgy and the dress, as Dogzilla pointed out, needs to be altered, I don’t see suggesting Spanx as one solution to give the dress a cleaner line (vs doing an alteration) is something to be taking HUGE offense at. Spanx is so ubiquitous these days it’s almost like suggesting a certain type of bra. I think Mom is dialing the social media outrage to absurd proportions.
According to the story accompanying the photo, they saw another dress they liked earlier, but decided to keep looking. The mother grabbed that dress off a rack and begged her daughter to try it on. When she came out of the dressing room, she said “Mom, this is not my dress.” So, it doesn’t seem like the sale was a sure thing at all.
Still, I agree the salesperson’s comments were insensitive. She did misread her customers’ intentions. She could have held off making any suggestions until it appeared the mother and daughter actually were about to buy the dress.
My thoughts:
The girl didn’t like the dress, had to be “begged” by the mother to try it on and said “This is not my dress” so it doesn’t sound like she was intending to buy it.
Looking at her expression it seems to me more of a “playing dress-up” moment than a serious consideration of the dress.
I can’t tell how bad the saleswoman’s comments were without knowing exactly what she said.
Based on the mother’s POV, the saleswoman was out of line and offensive.
However, if she seriously thought that they intended to buy that dress and wear it then I don’t think suggesting spanx is necessarily a bad thing if it is phrased correctly, ie;* That dress is beautiful on you. The color really compliments your skin and if you want we can add some spanx and the fabric will lie more smoothly.*
My final conclusion:
The saleswoman was probably tactless and out of line.
Mom is probably overreacting because she is the one who suggested this dress.
The girl looks OK in the dress but it is too clingy without proper undergarments (which could be just a long-line slip) for a 13 year old.
And yes, it would be more flattering on her with spanx, but I would never say so outside the anonymitiy of the interwebs unless I was a relative or good friend or she specifically asked.
I don’t think Spanx would be enough to make that dress fit well on her. It is clearly sized wrong, and if I may say so, I think it’s a good dress style for her body type. Spanx might smooth the curves a little but I think overall the dress would be a poor fit for her.
As a grown woman who is somewhat at peace with my body, if I walked into a store, saw a dress I loved, put it on and realized it looked a little lumpy, I would love it if a clerk suggested something like spanx, even unsolicited. I would take it as, “this is a way to make you look as good as possible in this dress,” and nothing more. However, even 1-2 years ago, someone suggesting that I don’t look perfect in something would put me on a mental train of, “Oh God, I’m so disgusting and fat. Why have I let myself become like this? I am clearly ugly and deeply flawed as person. I should rightly be shunned by proper society.” I wouldn’t be super-aware of these thoughts, but that’s what I would be thinking. Any flaw in my body was a flaw in my character.
I think my previous way of thinking is more common than not in young women, so I can definitely see how a comment like that could be hurtful. But:
- Per the article the girl has very good self-esteem and body image, so maybe she took this more in stride
- Inevitably, people will say things that will be hurtful to you, and learning how to put these things in an appropriate context is a very important life skill
- Somewhat off-topic, but I do wonder, assuming the mother is very pro-“you are beautiful and have an amazing body” all the time to her daughter, if this is less or more likely to cause the daughter to have unhealthy eating habits (whether overall too-high calorie intake, or binge eating or very restrictive eating or too-low calorie intake or purging behavior) than a mother who said, “you are a beautiful person and have many very pretty features but you are overweight and that can be both unhealthy and makes you less attractive overall.” I’m really not trying to bias that one way or the other, btw, it’s just something I wonder about.
Menarche doesn’t make you a ‘woman’ in the biological sense, since puberty is a process not an event. 11-13 year olds can certainly not (statistically) give birth as safely as adults, so the threshold of reproductive maturity isn’t at 13. (Based on conversations with doctors I’d guess it’s around 16 or so, but not totally sure). Also, menarche at 13 in modern world is a historical outlier.
I’m not a fan of the recent trend to define adulthood starting at 25, but it definitely doesn’t start at 11-13 either.
“I told Lexi to go ahead and go change,” she said. “I told the sales lady that my daughter is perfect just how she is. This is how God made her, and she looked beautiful… I told her, ‘I disagree with you. She’s perfect.”
Perfect the way god made her… except for the teeth apparently. Had to go out and get braces for your daughter to fix God’s little fuck up, I see.
On top of being too sensitive, the mom is a hypocrite! So sick of everyone having their feelings hurt.
Part of wearing fancy dresses is wearing the appropriate undergarments to make them hang correctly. That’s why fancy underwear used to be called “foundations”. Corsets, girdles, long line bras - they aren’t for making the wearer look less fat. Fat women in spankx still look fat, after all. Those items are the foundation which support and display the fancy dress.
That’s why skinny women wear foundations too. Fancy dresses are constructed with the idea that they will be supported by fancy underwear.
Girl should be grateful that the days of rubberized bras and bone-in girdles is over or stick to tshirts and sports bras if she doesn’t want to go to effort.
As someone who’s built like this girl, I can sympatguze that puberty is the worst. But I can also testify grown up underwear makes a world of difference.
psychobunny nailed it. From the article, it’s clear that they were trying on the dress for the fun of it. 13 year olds generally don’t wear Jessica Rabbit dresses, but it can be fun at that age to preview more mature styles on your changing body.
So a salesperson walking in and being critical can be akin to giving someone a body critique while they are playing dress-up. It’s introducing some harsh real-life stuff into what was a fun game. And while its a tough world, a middle schooler shopping for a party dress doesn’t need that.
In a regular shopping situation, there are good times and bad times to introduce the idea. But this wasn’t a regular shopping situation.
This.
The sooner women aren’t required to squeeze their bodies into uncomfortable gear to conform to some arbitrary norm, the better.
If you want to wear spanx, high heels, low-waisted skinny jeans or whatever other uncomfortable garments, please go right ahead, but I strongly object to the idea that women need to do this to be acceptable.
I’m a fan of proper undergarments for all! Skinny, curvy, pudgy, whatever - if a belly button and/or underwear lines are visible, wear something that smooths. It needn’t be Spanx or compression garments, but just pantyhose or skimmer shorts instead of undies creates a clean line. I don’t know that the saleswoman was suggesting she needed something to look slimmer… but the proper undergarments make a difference.
That’s why thin dancers and skaters wear tights but forego the underwear that can look bunchy, wrinkly and obvious. Even when I was super skinny and didn’t need “control” whatsoever, I always wore stockings, tights, etc. If I wanted bare legs, I wore hose cut off at the thighs.
Salespersons work on commission, yeah? That’s probably where that came from.
No one is requiredto wear, or squeeze their bodies into, anything. Which kind of makes your second paragraph a moot point, because the people that do wear these kinds of things do so because they choose to. I don’t wear Spanx per se, but I wear panty hose and other shape wear. I personally don’t find them uncomfortable in the least, nor high heels. If I did I simply wouldn’t wear them.
Also, to the people gasping in horror that someone would introduce the notion of Spanx to a girl of 13, I can pretty much assure you she’d already heard of them.
I’m kind of on the “foundation garments” side. Does she need spanx? No, she looks like a lovely young woman. Does she need Spanx with that dress - yep, and I would as well and I’m not overweight.
Its the salespersons job to sell. The dress and the add on sale of the appropriate foundation garments. And then the hose and the shoes and the jewelry and the purse.
For my daughter’s first formal, the salesperson spent 45 minutes selling us a strapless bra. There was no body shaming, there was the realistic fact that my daughter fit into very few strapless bras and that many of them that she tried did not work on her body or with her dress.
When I spend time with my personal shopper at Nordstrom, there is no body shaming, but there is the acknowledgement that certain cuts do not flatter my figure, that other clothes are going to require wearing a thong - which I won’t wear and therefore go on the reject pile.
There are cuts of formal wear that do not require the wearing of Spanx to keep your belly button indent from showing. There are cuts where you don’t need a strapless bra. If you don’t want to wear those things, pick the right clothes.
And she follows it up with
“You never ever know what someone is going through in life – ever,” she said. “So maybe just to be kind. Not to point out body flaws. I guarantee you we already know what they are.”
So, perfect or not?
I expect salespeople to help me understand how to make their products work best. TACTFULLY. I think it would be appropriate to say “If you love that dress but don’t think it looks good on you, some Spanx might help.” Take that with a grain of salt, I’m a man, so clothes shopping is not such a body-image funhouse mirror for me. (usually).
But the title of the thread is does she need to wear Spanx? I object to the word “need” which here does seem to be equivalent to “require”. There is a choice, not a need. A need kind of assumes that it is somehow wrong or incorrect to omit them.