Doctor Who "Dark Water" and "Death in Heaven" (spoilers after it airs)

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Didn’t the Doctor once say that Time Lords can always identify each other?

I even believe that he (possibly Eccleston’s Doctor?) once said that ‘he’d know’ if there were any other left. But I presume there’s various kinds of jiggery-pokery a Time Lord can employ to disguise himself from others…

Also, I think now that at least part of what Clara was doing in the opening scene was trying to set up some identifier for her later encounter with Danny in the Nethersphere—something that only he would know, in this case, that he’s the last person she’d ever tell ‘I love you’. At least, that’s what I immediately flashed to when she asked him to tell her something that’d positively identify him—telling her that he was the last one to hear those words from her would have done the trick. I think we might see a re-do of that scene next week, possibly even again as the opener.

Then again, now that I’ve stuck my neck out with that prediction, it’s probably guaranteed not to come true…

I think he knew that if he told her “I love you was the last thing you ever said to me, and you said it would be the last time you’d ever say it to anyone” that she’d know it was the positive identification that it was really him. And that she’d come for him. And he didn’t want her to come to hell :frowning:

So he just told her he loves her instead, and made her hang up.

(where’s that crying smiley!)

That was a weird timey-wimey thing. Why would she be running there days later again, just to see a memorial?

So 3W is a company that currently exists on Earth? And has existed for some time? And neither the Doctor nor Clara have heard of it and of the fact that they can speak to the dead?

It certainly is. They just, for some odd reason, use a flipped version of their logo. :slight_smile:

That explains Clara’s Post-Its!

As far back as The Wargames I believe, I don’t think he needed an introduction to spot a fellow Timelord then.

As with so many other things Doctor Who related, it’s inconsistent. In some episodes, the Doctor has explicitly stated that Time Lords can always recognize each other, regardless of regeneration. In other episodes the plot hinges on Time Lords not recognizing each other in their current incarnation.

Very enjoyable episode except for the Missy/Master reveal. yawn. The Master was only ever interestingly once way back in old-Who as a generic twirling-mustache-eeeeevvvvviiiilll type of villain, with no motive beyond generic insanity and randomness. Missy could have set the page for some fresh character / writing / canon to enjoy, but this whole season has just been otherwise forgettable w/re characters. At least they didn’t trot out the angels again.

Thoroughly satisfying. Loved pretty much every moment, even the ones that don’t make sense. :slight_smile: (Did they ever answer why the transparent tanks and magic water were necessary? seems like a lot of trouble to hide the cybermen from the audience (with an admittedly creepy image) for no in-universe reason.) Loved take-charge, threatening Clara. Loved the inhumanly forgiving Doctor (Mmph. That line. “Do you think I care for you so little that betraying me would make a difference?” so perfect.) Loved the payoff of Danny Pink. Loved Missy’s reveal. Loved the cybermen reveal. So good.

Even wifey loved it (and she’d been soured on the show this season.) She hasn’t seen anything with The Master before and asked for a run-down of his (/her) motivations. I tried … but thinking back, couldn’t really come up with anything cohesive. It seems almost like he’s a completely different character each time he shows up. The wiki page wasn’t much help. I know he wants to take over everything. I know he hates the Doctor. I know that at one point (8’s movie) he wanted to steal the Doctor’s regenerations because he was all out. I know he was driven mad by looking into the time vortex as a child. (which turned out to be a ploy by Rassilon to pull Gallifrey out of the time lock). But what exactly is his/her main goal? Why does he/she hate the Doctor? Is he/she just EEEEVIL for evil’s sake?

Also, can someone confirm for me that although this thread has both episode titles that the 2nd part hasn’t aired yet? It wasn’t on my TiVo, and it seems to be scheduled for this coming Saturday. I don’t want to read spoilers for part 2 in this thread until I see it.

Agreed on both.

Spoiler 1 above made me like 12 a lot more than I did.

Spoiler 2 made me go, um, do I really want that done to me?

I hope it was not your household. :frowning:

Secret handshake?

Fear not, it’s broadcast on Saturday the 8th. I’m sure us UK posters, and the others who somehow have IP addresses that resolve as UK ones, will keep our spoiler discipline. :smiley:

I’m still holding out hope that Missy is merely The Rani pretending to be The Master … .

She didn’t. She ran there to find the scene of the accident – ambulance, police, road closed off with tape – and then, as the camera rotated around her, there was a fade to her standing in the same spot some time later, with everything back to normal aside from Danny’s memorial. It was just arty editing, nothing wibbly-wobbly.

But of note we never saw, and never saw Clara seeing, the body. And the Post-its were an odd thing - as was her need to tell him right then what she needed to say - he was on his way to see her and it couldn’t wait. She had to tell him something then.

Hadn’t thought it myself but yeah, I suspect the Post-it note Clara was a future Clara and the Clara at the scene with the memorial was current time Clara - as was the Clara who tried to force The Doctor to rewrite time and going forward.

Also, the teasers had “Clara Oswald never existed.” said by Clara … I didn’t miss it did I? That is a teaser for that which is coming in part 2? Getting ahead of themselves but how does that fit in and does Missy’s having commented on Clara with an “I chose well.” (not exact quote) actually mean something or is it just misdirection? Will any of this feedback on Clara’s mission of going into the Doctor’s lifestream and re-altering what the GI did? I don’t think so but the never existed bit does raise the thought …

The other part I thought was odd was that she was supposedly talking to him on the phone as he was hit, but we didn’t hear anything–no thump, no crash as the phone hit the ground, no screams or yells from either Danny or anyone else in the vicinity, no brake screech–just nothing.

As DSeid pointed out, we never saw the body, either. I’ve watched the episode three times all the way through so far and a couple more just the beginning bits, and I looked carefully: the only thing we saw were legs and torso (and not both at the same time). No head, ever. And it didn’t look like Clara did, either.

And wasn’t it odd that Danny couldn’t remember any of the answers to Clara’s questions (except one), including the first restaurant where they had a date? This was before she’d said she would come after him, so he had no reason at that point to try to fool her. He wanted her to believe him at that point. Nice touch with “November 23” being the answer to the one easy question he was able to answer. The date Doctor Who premiered. :slight_smile:

(Re: snapping fingers to open the TARDIS)

I wondered this too. But River can open the doors with only a snap as well. And didn’t Amy? This scene just baffled me. I couldn’t get over the fact that he doesn’t need keys. And the way it was revealed was sort of a “duh, you big dummy, have you forgotten?” by River. (He also still keeps leaving the brakes on.)

Also, I don’t see this as such an issue. After all, the TARDIS stole The Doctor. She won’t keep him locked out.

Yeah, but don’t forget: maybe Clara doesn’t know you don’t need a key to do the snap. Maybe she’s never tried it without her key. The Doctor knows the scenario isn’t real, so he’s just playing along.