Doctor Who: Father's Day

Cafe Society
1

On the whole I enjoyed this episode, particularly the implications of things lurking outside the known universe waiting for the opportunity to get in, very H.P. Lovecraft.

Once again, too much of Rose’s family, but it was well scripted and funny. Paul Cornell has written a number of good Doctor Who books in the past and can usually be relied upon to turn out a good story.

I felt that removing the TARDIS early in the episode was a good way of forcing the characters to find an alternative, unfortunately they did not seem to do much at all and just hid in the church.

The ending was a little predictable and too Star Trekky for me, but well done nontheless. Quite touching.

I’m just awaiting delivery of the first three episodes on DVD, although I understand that the BBFC have classified them as a 12, which is a little silly as my four year old has watched every episode with me so far.

Please let me know what you think of this episode.

2

I’ve really liked the new revamped Dr Who and I’m someone who remembers it from way back when but always thought it was a bunch of low budget arse. It seems to have really grown up. My husband actually cried at the end of “Fathers’ Day”. I thought it was full of very poignant moments, as have all the episodes so far. It’s the UST that keeps me watching though really. He wants her; she wants him. Why won’t they damn well kiss and get it over with? Lovely stuff! :cool:

3

Ok, first off, I need to say that the ending was so predictable, and yet it was perfect any way, kinda’ like Lovecraft stories, also - :eek: “UST!?” Halfling, could you excuse me, I need to throw up now.
::Sometime later::

Ok, I feel I can respond now. I have always know that the doctor is capable of romantic feelings, since he is after all, a grandfather, and presumably, a father as well. I have a problem, however, with the idea of him feeling romantic thoughts for a human. Sure, there was plenty of UST between him and Romana, but of course, she is a Time Lady, so it’s ok. (Sure, so they really were involved, in RL, but still, even if the same happens to Eclestone and pop singer-girl, hopefully, it will left out of the scripts.) That being said, obviously, people are going to see a man and woman traveling together as being romantic, but if something more gets implied as reality, I will be quite upset.

P.S. Do you want romance between a human woman, and the Doctor, in a way that does not upset my sensibilities? Then read the novel entitled Human Nature, now available as an ebook. Hell, even not as a way that upsetsme, it’s still good.

P.S. From the comments, it sound like the kids love it.

4

I had to tape it as I was taking my Mum to see Hitchhiker’s Guide (since Dad wouldn’t take her)

In a typically “Dad moment”, Dad then decided he would go to see the film after I offered to watch it again for Mum’s sake and switched off the VCR as he went out. Why? Dad never offers explanation other than “I didn’t think I needed to ask” :rolleyes:

So hopefully my girlfriend will have the last bit of the episode on tape. I think I can see what will happen, but I need to see next week’s spoiler too :slight_smile:

5

Well I thought it was a great episode! An excellent recovery from last week’s pants.

Standard, not overly complex, time-paradox stuff, but that’s been a rare plot-line in Doctor Who. And anything more complex would have too much for the target audience and difficult to do properly in 45 mins. What they attempted they performed excellently, and that’s far better than trying to be too clever and failing in a confused mess.

I think the series is shaping up for some amazing closing episodes, there’s definite indications that it’s all building towards something.

I don’t understand why some criticize things for being too Rose & family-centric. This is part of what’s made the new series such a success and such a step on from previous series. There’s far more of a grounding in emotional issues that were completely ignored previously. Did we ever get the slightest indication that anyone ever missed previous Doctor’s companions when they vanished off the face of the Earth?

As for any romance; please god, no. The Doctor can be fond of Rose, he could even love her. But not in that way. This is not Star Trek.

6

In the series, yeah, I recall a little. Enought that it was not unrealistic. In the books, we got alot. I liked it. Perhaps now that Star Trek has been canceled, we will see more attempts to integrate what we know of real human reactions to things into the ST books.

7

I’m not that upset about the Doctor having feelings for Rose as his situation is now different from the original series. Before he had human companions because he enjoyed their company but always had his Gallifreyan family/friends etc. Now because of the war his home is gone. Maybe he will be so alone that he will fall for human.

I have to second you and say that Human Nature is an excellent book though. BTW are the virgin books supposed to be part of the actual continuity or what?

One thing puzzles me, if this series is a continuation of the original series as opposed to being totally new, then Susan should still be on earth in the 22nd century. Unless the BBC books are also included in which case she has a TARDIS acquired from the Master (Legacy of the Daleks), very poorly written book, but published by the BBC.

Perhaps the absence of the Dcotors family will be explained in the new series or perhaps it will be ignored entirely as the new generation of Doctor Who fans may be entirely unaware of his grandaughter. Another possibility is that maybe all Gallifreyans were recalled to fight in the Time War, in which case all of the Doctors old time lord friends and foes could be dead.

Futile Gesture I agree the series is building to a climax, although I disagree that the last episode was pants, I particularly liked the idea of dumping the new companion, the series works best with just the Doctor and Rose. I suspect that the bad wolf theme that has been running through the series so far will come to a head in the eponymous twelfth episode. Hopefully if the rumours are true we will be treated to the return of the Daleks as well and the regeneration sequence of Eccleston to Tennant.

8

The whole Susan situation is usually very carefully left unspoken, because it kind of contradicts all that has come after the First Doctor era. If it ever does get canonically revisited, I think there will be an elaborate and hopefully plausible explanation. But I doubt it will ever be touched upon.

9

I’m almost certain we’ll see him again. Why bring him on board, feature him in the weakest story of the series so far, then immediately dump him? There’s more of his story to come…

10

Wha? How does it contradict anything? As I recall, later in the series itself, the doctor meets her, and she recognizes him, and vise versa. (The Five Doctors) No problem there. Now, later on in the series, we hear about looms, but there is no reason in the world to believe that the ancient looking first doctor is so old he predates them, and had a child the old fashioned way. Sure, so the idea that he could have fathered a child might stick in your craw, but last time I looked, it was canonical, and doesn’t interfere with any plot points.

11

I thought that the looms were a product of the books after the series finished, mainly used by Marc Platt in the Virgin range of books featuring the 7th Doctor and then picked up by Lawrence Miles in the BBC range of books featuring the 8th Doctor. I don’t recall any refrerence to them in the t.v. series, although please feel free to correct me. Also the looms seem to come in and out of favour as in I am sure this was contradicted in at least one of the virgin books when they referered to Gallifreyan children although I can’t find the reference right now.

12

I was under the impression that the Doctor having grandchildren no longer sat well with the canon being established about what Time Lords are.

Perhaps I’m wrong, I’m far from any kind of fanboy over Dr Who.

13

Perhaps you are right, certainly a book called Lungbarrow by Marc Platt suggested that Susan was from Gallifreys past and that the Doctor travelled back illegally and picked her up, she then recognised him as her grandfather. Whether he is/was a regeneration or reincarnation of her grandfather (called the Other) is never categorically revealed.

Personally though, I’m just happy that the series is back, with decent writing and a good direction to the stories in general.

14

Yes, I am quite aware of that book, but while the books are more respected in Doctor Who fandom then in other groups, most likely because they were the whole of the fandom after it was canceled, they still aren’t cannon, unlike the Doctor’s perfectly plain statement that she is his granddaughter. Now, a few fans might be uncomfortable with the idea of his being a father, but that is too bad. (Others might relish the idea, but that is just too bad for you, (Note to Paul McGann fans, sorry, but the character, as conceived, has never bedded a (human) companion, and he’s not going to start doing so now.) That is not to say that the concept shall not become canon at the hands of RTD, just that for right now, it is, just as how, until shortly before the writers came up with the idea of having them exist in the same universe, the cartoon shows The Venture Brothers, and Johnny Quest took place in different, for lack of a better word, worlds, as one way of seeing it.

P.S. A copy of Lungburrow is almost impossible to come across, or so I hear. However, it is available on line at the BBC’s site, which I linked to earlier, ebooks.

P.S. People who have a problem with the Doctor being a grandfather, minus the looms, what is your objection?

15

Sorry if you misunderstood me, I don’t have a problem with the Doctor being a grandfather, either with or without looms, I just feel that the BBC will probably neglect this aspect of the character as it relies too much on having seen the original series, which many of the younger viewers will not have done.

Given the much higher production values in this series I suspect that even if they were given the opportunity to watch early episodes on video/DVD they would probably not enjoy them. I must admit myself that I sat down to watch Brainof Morbius the other day outof a misplaced sense of nostalgia and ended up watching most of it with my finger pressed on the fast forward button.

Like I said previously in many repsects it might be better to think of this as a remake rather than a canonical continuation of the original. I certainly wouldn’t be offended if this was the BBCs intention.

16

I didn’t say you did. I was asking the question of everyone who has a problem, including, but not limited to GuanoLad, and lurkers. In particular, GuanoLad seem to be under the belief that something about Susan’s existence conflicts with the series, old, or new. I am not attacking him, but instead simply want to know he, or anyone else came to that conclusion.

Oh, and how the series could explain here, well, it can simply have either a tearful reunion with her, with no explanation give to Rose, and have her standing by, bewildered, and later have him ridicule the concept that just because he isn’t attracted to humans, (Already establish in Episodes 1, and 3) doesn’t mean he doesn’t have biological drives, or he could have a throw-away line mentioning her. This would be a neat set up for the hinted at reunion between him, and someone he thought to be long deadSuch a one-off line could take the form of his mentioning things he misses, or perhaps a review of famous freedom fighter. “Ah, that was my grand-daughter Susan. She stayed on Earth to marry an earthling, during the great war against the Daleks. You know, now that the Daleks have creased to exist, whatever happen to her?” Then, some sort of emergency ensues before he can start to wonder about it.

17

I just re-found this thread, and I shall answer Scott’s question from my point of view.

As I said, I’m not a Dr Who fanboy, but I used to have a few friends who were. In fact if you’re a big enough fan yourself you may have even heard of them if you’re familiar with the southern hemisphere Who fan community.

We used to draw comic strips for the local fanzine, TSV, and one of the ones that was written by Andrew (I think. Or was it James?) had a mention of Susan in it. My friend Peter got a bit disappointed in that, and grumbled that even going anywhere near there was all sorts of trouble, and he wasn’t very happy with the whole Susan situation as it stood, and implied further that most of the fanboys thought similarly.

What I inferred from that was that generally the idea behind Susan still existing canonically simply as the Doctor’s granddaughter as established in the first season really doesn’t fit with consequential developments in the character of The Doctor, and so needs some other explanation, which may or may not have already been established somewhere in the novelisation continuity.

But, as my disclaimer stated, perhaps I’m wrong.