I’m not saying you should feel guilty about having an abortion, but at least be honest about the weight of the decision. If you feel having an abortion is on par with clipping your fingernails, then so be it, it just smacks of rationalizing to me.
What I meant about the ovum, is that human development is a gradient. You, yes you, were once an ovum. All demarcations are imaginary, and to tell yourself it will not eventually become an individual is deluding yourself, for whatever your own reasons may be.
Just because it doesn’t have a personality yet, doesn’t mean it isn’t human (a human). Convince me that I shouldn’t give a rat’s ass about aborted fetuses, and I won’t. I do, because I give weight to humanity at all stages, in all its diversity. Those that don’t, are drawing an imaginary line in the sand, and saying here is where we don’t give a shit. Fine, whatever, but you wouldn’t draw that line, if you felt you didn’t need to, for some rationalization on your part.
The official rule in the Catohlic church is that we don’t know, since there is no mentin of that in the Bible or Tradition. However we imagine that God has something different than hell for them. Ditto for unbatised kids
Rationalizing in what way? I suppose abortion is a bit weightier decision that clipping your fingernails; it costs more for one, and takes a lot more time. I’d put it on par with the decision to, I don’t know, get an IUD, or go on the pill, or something. I mean, it’s essentially the same; a decision not to have a child now. Of course, I am speaking about the most common type of abortion, not terminations that happen because of severe medical issues or rape or something. Those are always tragic, as I said earlier, because they are brought about by tragedy.
I don’t know what Fred thinks happens to the souls of those “victims”, but I’d think God would have taken them back to Himself. Soooooooo, if Dr. Tiller gets to “explain” himself to them in person, that must mean he’s in Heaven. Sorry Freddie!
I’m wondering how I’m going to talk about this whole story, when it comes up, with my father. I love and respect my dad, but our views on this issue differ VERY widely. He’s made statements about Dr. Tiller like “I don’t know how he can live with himself”, and is very anti-abortion.
But I have a different outlook. Okay, I believe life begins at conception. But “life” is a slippery religious term(and I am religious, an Episcopalian) and my belief is a matter of faith, not something that can be “proven” I also don’t believe that anyone’s religious beliefs should dictate secular law.
I’m unhappy when abortion occurs, but it’s a matter of choice, and not my decision to make. I can only pray that a different outcome occurs. My views can probably best be summed up by quoting a former Vice-Presidential candidate. James Stockdale. Back in 1992 he was Perot’s running mate. When asked his position on the abortion issue he said “I believe that what a woman does with her body is her business, period.”
Dr. Tiller was murdered, no ifs, ands, or buts. I’ll pray for his family, and I’ll also pray that his murderer has a change of heart. It won’t get him out of just punishment, but that’s not the point.
It’s not about having a personality, it’s about being able to survive outside of my body. “Inside my body” and “outside my body” is a pretty clear line of demarcation, whether you like it or not. “Inside my body” means I get to decide. “Outside my body” means no longer under my jurisdiction. This has nothing to do with the relative humanity of it, about which I frankly couldn’t give a shit.
That seems to be an odd and arbitrary line of demarcation. If we kill (or: not save) everybody who can not survive without us, many disabled and elderly get in trouble.
Terminating a developing human being should be considered tragic in and of itself, despite the extenuating circumstances. We want to have sex, for all of the obvious reasons, so we rationalize a way to delete the consequences, knowing full well the risks before hand.
Look, it’s human nature. It’s nothing to be ashamed of. For how long was my wife on the pill? But let’s be honest, here. We’ve invented ways of terminating developing humans. Whether it be birth control, IUDs or getting an abortion. And it’s not a weightier decision than clipping your fingernails, because we’ve rationalized it to be so. Yay for us!
Yeah, it pretty much does. If a person can’t be defined by by sentience and distinct personality, then the word has no meaning. And there is no “yet,” if the pregnancy is terminated. You can’t import hypothetical futures into the present. Just because oak trees grow from acorns doesn’t mean all acorns are oak trees. Some acorns are nothing but future squirrel shit.
I don’t care how you feel about fetuses. my point is only that how you feel is not some sort of objective fact that everyone else needs to agree to.
I think what you don’t get is that if a person genuinely does not have the slightest belief that an embryo is a person, then there is nothing that needs to be “rationalized.” You are making a mistake in assumimg that everyone starts with the same perception of a zygote as you do.
What you’re saying is akin to a PETA activist asserting that people who do not think “meat is murder” are only “rationalizing” it to themselves.
Ok, I am not American, so I need more input on this: what happens to disabled people with no relatives in the US?
As far as I know there are orphanages in the US, so society provides protection for children.Clearly the government thinks that children are worth living even if they cannot survive on their own.
Do you get this weepy when you throw your cum rag in the wash? After all, human development is a gradient and you were just a sperm once and if you treat it like just a clump of cells, aren’t you just rationalizing and so on and so forth with that high-minded bullshit.
I never made such an assertion. It’s my belief that birth is the rational demarcation for a legal status of “personhood,” but I personally don’t think the individual personality fully devlops unti after birth.
I can say unequocally that an entity with no brain activity cannot be a “person,” and that’s when the vast majority of terminations occur.
Sorry Freddie!