If you’re a pro-lifer and you believe that human beings are created at conception, you must conclude that abortion is murder.
If you believe this you must also accept that there is a veritable holocaust of unborn children occurring right under your nose, funded by your tax money.
It stands to reason that if pro-lifers were killing abortionists or blowing up their clinics, people would stop becoming abortionists. It also stands to reason that if nobody wanted to be abortionists, then the number of abortions performed annually would decrease considerably.
Um…probably because they are also against things like the death penalty, vigalante justice, first degree murder, jail time and generally acting insane?
And there have been incidents of pro-lifers blowing up abortion clinics or killing doctors who performed abortions.
As MSmith537 said there have been many incidents of “pro-life” campaigners doing harm.
It has not and will not stop people carrying out abortions. Your argument is flawed, as is the logic of a supposed “pro-lifer” killing, surely this is not a pro-life act.
I support the right of women to have abortions if they want them, it is a personal choice, let’s face it up to a certain point a fetus is only a collection of cells and the vast majority of fertislised eggs either don’t implant or abort naturally.
Murder is not the answer to reducing the amount of abortions, education and responsible contraception are. I’m sure everyone would like to reduce the amount of abortions actually carried out. Even though I support the idea in principle I’m not sure how I would feel if my wife aborted an unwanted fetus.
first of all not all pro-lifers are antideath penalty. President Buish was pro-life and anti-death penalty. ill try to find some stats but I’d be surprised if tyhere weren’t a lot of folks who are pro-life and anti-death penalty.
Your other reasons don’t hold water either. People are only generally opposed to vigilante justice because t hey think it’s better to let the law handle things. On abortion the law has sent a clear message to pro-lifers: Nothing will be done to stop the holocaust of the unborn and you will continue to pay for it. This removes the objection to vigilante justice.
pro-lifers are obviously against murder but when it comes to abotionists they have reasons for making an excveption. they know that if this abortionist isn’t stoipped he will continue to kill unborn babies. By their lights killing the abortionists is (or should be) the right thing to do because it will save lots of unborn children.
If they’re scared of jail I would accuse them of not having the courage of their convictions.
And it’s not insane to kill an abortionist if you think he’s killing real people, just like it wouldn’t be insane to kill a Nazi guard who worked at Auschwitz.
In my (pro-choice) opinion, those prolifers who blowed up abortion clinics & killed doctors were evil but at least they were being consistent with their beleifs.
says that in 2004 there were only 40 acts of violence by pro-lifers in and around abortion clinics. No abortionists were killed and no arrests were made. Also we dont know the circumstances of those acts of violence. It’s possible that someone was protesting outside a clinic and got into an argument with a pro-choicer and started a fight that they didn’t plan on having when they went out to protest.
Im arguing that if pro-lifers embarked on a prolonged guerrilla war against abortionists and abortion clinics then very quickly people would stop being abortionists and the number of abortins would fall sharply. The pro-lifers would win because of their strength of numbers.
If you believe that human life begins at conception then killing abortionists is a pro-life act because by killing one person youre saving hundreds or maybe even thousands of unborn children from being aborted. Its like if you were a German resistance fighting against Hitler in WW2. If you came across a concentration camp you would want to save the Jews inside, and if you had to shoot a few concentration camp guards in the process well…they souldn’t have become concentration camp guards, should they?
I agree with this.
This makes sense to me because I’m pro-choice but if I was pro-life then I might think differently because good education will always take a long time to work (after all, we’ve been trying it for years and teen pregnancy rates just keep going up, up, up) and by scaring people away from becoming abortionists you could reduce the rate more quickly.
I agree with this completely. I think it’s more about keeping women “in their place”. I know this may be controversial and I don’t want to offend but that’s what I think and i like to speak my mind.
This is just logically incorrect. It only holds if you view all killings of human beings as murder. It’s perfectly possible to consider a fetus as a human being, and to consider its death as something other than murder, however regrettable you might see that death to be.
You’re wrong, (although your opinion is shared by some posters, here).
There are probably people who are pro-life, (for whatever reason), who do not believe that a fertilized egg becomes a person until some time later in pregnancy. However, the general opinion of people who oppose abortion is that the human life does begin at conception.
Given the large number of women who work outside the home and hold positions of authority in commerce, industry, and elected office, who also oppose abortion, the notion that pro-lifers just want to keep women “in their place” is frankly ludicrous. You may continue to cherish that belief if it makes you happy.
Note that you are the one who used the word murder in your OP. Consider that the taking of a life in vigilante justice is every bit an act of murder. There is a long-held principle that two wrongs do not make a right, so why would a person of conscience choose to commit an act of injustice under the guise of making things just?
The discussion of abortion is a serious one that should probably not be handled with throw-away lines and displays of poor logic. Your claim for motivation is no more supportable than the claim of some pro-lifers that abortion is only an exercise in selfishness and and a disrespect for human life.
On the other hand, I am sure that we will have a merry time watching this battle carried out with more absolutist declarations and bad logic over the next few pages.
And for me a belief that the mother will be haunted by ‘the cry of unborn life’ which is a (almost) unspeakable cruelty.
Yes is it a holocaust that is far beyond what we know Hitler did.
I don’t assume that the abortionists know what they are doing to those women, many don;t know what they are doing to the babies, they are just trying to make a living in the way they know how.
Its not a straw man question. Remember that pro-lifers, if they believe what they say they believe, are fighting to stop a holocaust of babies from happening right under their very noses. I can’t really imagine anything more evil than that. Can you?
So what do they do about this? Not very much, it seems. They picket clincs so t hey can hurl abuse at women who go there for abortions and wave pictures of mutalated fetuses in their faces and throw pigs blood at them. They work to pass toothless bills like thjis one
which just try to guilt women into keeping the unwanted pregnancy. At the same time theuy make it harder for women to protect themselves by fighting against contraception. But at no point do t hey actually take the one stroke of decisive action which would guarantee an end to the problem: Violent, civil disobedience aimed at abortionists and there clinics.
Given that they think (or at least they [iu]should* think, if they believe what they say they believe) that abortionists are mass murderers, they should have no problem justifying violence against them on utilitarian grounds. So why are there so few violent pro-lifers?
I think its because they dont have the courage of their convictions, and that women hating plays a large part in their opinion whether they realise it or not.
From a pro-lifers perspective what would an abortion be if not a murder? It wouldnt be an accidental deatyh or a suicide. It wouldnt be a manslaughter because of the premeditation involved. What else would it be?
Because the people of the United States are no longer as forgiving on extra legal methods of killing other humans beings --see lynching-- as we were back in the latter half of the 19th century and a good portion of the 20th. People who murdered abortion doctors would be caught, prosecuted, and then spend a lot of time in jail.
If I wake up one morning and find you grinning up at me, having plugged yourself into my kidneys as a living dialysis machine, I am not sure I would consider it murder if I unplugged you, even if I knew that action would cause your death. And it is pretty certain that you are a human being.
I still am not sure that I would consider it murder even if I had voluntarily taken an action earlier that I knew carried a certain risk that I would wake up the following morning with a person plugged into my kidneys.
And what do you think of the argument that the mother is the one who decides, not the doctor performing the abortion? It’s not like we have roving bands of abortionists killing every fetus in sight.
I can’t imagine the pain the abortionists must hide from themselves. Going back to the Holocaust analogy, along the lines of the concentration camp executioners, but hiding the truth from themselves, bearing that pain subconsciously and hiding it from themselves. I’ve heard a ex-abortionist said that he would frequently reassemble the baby to make sure all the pieces were removed, there is no way that can’t effect someone.
You’re wrong, (although your opinion is shared by some posters, here).
Why? Do these women speak for the pro-life movement? I thinkits funny that you sumgly accuse me of bad logic while simultaneously commiting the fallacy of “Unrepresentative Sample”
Just because X amount of pro-life women don’t think pro-life position is anti-women necessarily say anything abouyt the pro-life movement as a whole. When you look at what what a ban on abortion would mean for women, and when you look at what pro-lifers actually do to prevent abortion (ie. just try to make women feel as bad as possible) its hard to come to a conclusion other than that the pro-life movement is at least partly informed by misoginy, whether pro-lifers know it or not. The presence of a few outliers who believe otherwise doesnt change that.
Why on earth do you think I would cherish this belief? Why do you think it makes me happy to believe this?
There is also a long held principle of “necessary evil”. Robbing Peter to pay Paul is one thing, but killing peter because you think he makes his living killing babies is quite another. As the stakes rise, so does the pressure to right the original wrong by whatever means are necessary. I want to know why pro-lifers aren’t buckling under this pressure on mass. If they are right then abortion is far more evil thjan the Holocaust and most people would say that killing a few concentration camp guards to allow the prisoners to escape would be morally right.