Hello everyone! This thread is basically about the value of community colleges vs. private and public colleges. Are there any comm. colleges that offer 4 year (not just associate degrees, or 2 year) programs like “other” colleges? If not… why? If so, is the quality of the education THAT much worse compared to other colleges.
Also: To briefly generalize, is there a tread for better education towards large universities or towards smaller private/public colleges? By “better education”, I mean better initial employment rate after school, graduation rate, test scores, etc.
You can also answer my title thread… School is back, baby!!!
The quality of your education is mostly in your own hands when you are in college. If you’re interested in the value of your degree as a credential, you can pretty much go by the rankings you see in magazines, unless you’re in a specialized field, in which case you should read journals and see which university gets the most articles published. There aren’t many small colleges (say, less than 2000 students or so) at the top of the rankings. The most highly ranked schools tend to be medium-sized (4000-10000 students).
Community colleges and four year universities serve different purposes. If you are studying a very job related field- say accounting- community colleges with their cheaper prices and smaller classes, is the way to go. But if you are studying something equiptment-heavy- like film or nuclear physics- you will probably be better off with a larger university right away. Larger universities usually offer more facilities, a wider variety of programs and more prominent professors (who are likely taking advantage of these research facilities themselves).
Generally community colleges don’t offer four year degrees because
A: Once the AA degree meant something and was sometimes a stopping point in one’s education.
B: They are able to keep costs down by not investing in the research and other facilities that larger universities have (and that you will likely want in your upper division classes)
C: They arn’t able to offer the variety of upper division classes that most people want in the last years of their degree.
Well, I’m not sure how much THAT is. As someone who has taught at both, it will be less, because:
The educational resources (library, lab equipment, tutoring help) will usually be much greater at a four-year school.
A substantial part of your education will come from the other students around you, via in- or after-class discussions. The former are not as good at CCs, the latter very, very rare.
The standards are higher at a four-year school. You will have to do more work, which, amazingly, will result in more learning.
I think that’s a very limited definition of “better education”…
There is also a BIG difference between small private schools and major state Universities. To put it briefly, small colleges have a teaching mission, which theoretically everyone buys into. State U hires, fires and promotes its profs pretty much solely on their ability to do research. Skill in teaching undergrads is way, way down on the priority scale.
Hence, while **Hyperelastic’s ** suggestion about looking up academic publications is quite sound in establishing the academic rep of university X, it does not really connect to the educational experience of the average new student, who may not have a major or a very specific idea what he wants to do.
Another big difference is how the individual student fits in. It’s true that the quality of your education is largely within your own hands at any college, it’s easier to become “lost” within a large university. At a smaller institution you’ll meet many of the same people over and over. If whichever type you chose is not a good fit for your particular needs and personality, you probably won’t get a very good education, either.
The California Institute of Technology, generally considered one of the top science and engineering schools in the country, has only about 1,000 undergraduates. It’s very much an exception to the rule that only big schools can attract big science projects.
Better is in the eyes of the beholder. Looking back I could have saved a truckload of money in the first two years and then transferred to the four year college for years 3 and 4. After all, your first two years at the four-year college are just GenEds. Calculus, Western Civ and Rocks for Jocks are the same no matter what you pay for them. And if you put up good grades, getting credits to transfer to a decent school shouldn’t be a huge problem.
By a comm. college that grants four-year degrees, do you mean something like a public university with an open admissions policy?
MLS is completely right about needing to match your personality and interests with the college you attend. Academic standards, faculty interaction, university size, academic programs, social norms and geographic locations all vary.
Community colleges generally don’t offer 4-year degrees because it’s not their mission. They’re not funded to do so.
There’s no evidence I know of to support “bigger is better” when it comes to outcomes. If anything, there is evidence that small liberal arts colleges may better promote some positive outcomes. But it’s not an absolute–in some fields those increased resources will make a difference in quality. Certainly, not every small college is a good college, just like not every large university is a prestigious deep-pocketed place. I think students will have the best outcomes when they’re in an environment where they are engaged and happy. That has less to do with size and more to do with campus culture and fit.
Peers are one factor why a community college experience may not be the same as a four-year experience. At a community college you’ve got classmates with a wider mix of degree aspirations. Some of them aren’t seeking a 4-year degree and their career plans don’t require one. That’s great from the standpoint of learning about diverse viewpoints, but some research suggests it tends to depress other students’ expectations and aspirations.
There are some “hybrid” institutions that offer both Associate and Bachelor degrees in various disciplines (although how many there are, I have no idea) - here’s one in my home state:
In general, Community/Junior Colleges only offer (at most) Associates’ Degrees as their mission differs from 4-year colleges/universities.
Community/Junior college quality can vary considerably from state to state. The California CC system is, I’m told, one of the better systems in the country; and individual CC’s are often quite good (Santa Monica CC comes to mind; and good compared to other community colleges in state/across the country).
I teach at a CC, so I have some perspective on their advantages/disadvantages.
Bigger doesn’t necessarily mean better - as others have pointed out, it largely depends on what your needs are. Personally, I prefer small, liberal arts insitutions (at least, for undergraduate education) - but that preference may be unrealistic if I want to become, for example, a nuclear physicist (where attending a large, research university may be more suitable - CIT excepted, of course :).
I’m in complete agreement with what’s been said: there’s no definite ‘best’, generally speaking. One of my peers from high school is at University of Delaware, which has something like 17,000 undergrad students. I attend a very, very tiny liberal arts school, which has roughly 400 students. We’re both getting a better education than each other: I would be utterly miserable in a 500-student lecture, while she would despise the all-discussion, all-mandatory-curriculum at my school.
This summer I took a public speaking course at the local community college. It was a mix of people taking the class just for personal benefit, people taking it to try to further their career, and people taking it as a requirement to eventually get their Associates from the college. Obviously, there was less common ground than there is where I study full-time. I’m not sure that there’s a lot of debate here: there’s no definitive ‘Best’ way of learning.
School is back, baby!!!