Does a hotel owner have a moral obiigation to support feral cat populations on theiir properties?

The group “Alley Cat Allies” supports the feeding and neutering (those they can trap) feral cat populations.

Is this good idea?
Dispute described here

If nothing else, it seems kind of needlessly dickish of the hotel to keep giving the cats to the shelter instead of returning them directly to the CARE group.

If the hotel chain wants the cats removed from their properties then so be it. Fluffy needs to go. No explanation or justification required. As offensive as this may be to some people, it is their property. If they don’t want free roaming felines then they can have them removed.

With that being said, I expect they’ll get creamed by the PR blitz and do another about-face soon. If and when that happens, that won’t prove that the feline removal project was morally wrong. It will simply mean that the real world cost of the plan exceeded the value.

Things can be both immoral and legal. I don’t think anyones questioning the hotels legal right to remove the cats.

The argument for it being immoral is that the hotel agreed to be a part of the program in the first place. The cat group then went to the expense of neutering the cats and released the cats at the hotel and set them up with a caretaker, presumably if the hotel had just passed on the project, the group would’ve put their efforts elsewhere.

At which point new management rolls in and the deal goes out the window. Such is life.

I would like to know the exact terms of the agreement between the previous management and Alley Cat Allies. Precisely who actually agreed to exactly what? How long did this arrangement last?

I think the moral issue is with their neglect and abuse of the cats by allowing them to sit in the heat for hours without access to water, and keeping them in traps for hours to the point where the frantic animals injure themselves trying to escape. If they choose to leave the program, that’s unfortunate but understandable - just don’t be dicks in the process.

Will there really be a PR frenzy or just a PR frenzy amongst cat people? This seems like the type of thing that’s going to piss off the locals (but it’s a resort, so, really, that’s not going to effect much) and some message boards. But overall it won’t be a big deal and will ultimatly blow over after a few weeks.

WRT the cats being left in the traps for hours. How long were the cats in the traps when the ACA people were taking care of them?

I think they might just need to find a middle ground. Tell the ACA people that if they want to come and trap the cats that’s fine. They just can’t bring them back, they have to be released at least X miles away. How they want to work the logistics of that is their problem if they want the ‘contract’.

Another thing. When they say “The cats were left in traps for up to nine hours, baking in the hot sun in temperatures of 90 degrees, with no food or water. Eyewitnesses posted photos of cats who were injured from the frantic struggle to free themselves—at least three with bloody noses, another with a gash on her head” they don’t say what the average is. Maybe ONE cat was in badly placed trap for 9 hours and the rest are in the shade for one hour. Maybe 3 were injured but 250 were unharmed.

We’re only getting one side of the story here.

Does a hotel owner have a moral obligation to support feral cat populations on their properties? No.

Does a hotel owner have a moral obligation to refrain from allowing cats to bake in the sun and maim themselves horribly trying to escape from a trap? Yes.

Agreed. Morally I have no problem with them wanting the cats off their property, but they could accomplish that with a humane trap-and-relocate program. (Hell, they could even try working with Alley Cat Allies to do this.)

They’re trying to position themselves as animal-friendly, but their methods belie that. They do have other options. If they get bad PR for their hypocrisy, it’s well-deserved.

Also, frankly, I suspect their efforts will be futile, because there’s something about that location which makes it a draw for feral cats, and it’s not like the world is going to run out of strays anytime soon. Relocate one and another (or two, or three) will show up to take its place. So, they’re being dicks all while accomplishing nothing, so what’s the point of being dicks?

The thing is, it’s really stupid on their parts - the reason people trap, neuter, and release is that if you get RID of feral cats, other feral cats will move in. If you neuter them the population remains stable and they don’t make new cats.

It is not the hotel owner’s obligation. It is the duty of the Alley Cat Allies to go around to hotels and do a spot check for feral cats and remove them before the duty falls to the hotels.

This is exactly the point. I have a friend who is involved in TNR feral cat care in her neighborhood, and she has said that what she finds so frustrating is that people sometimes think the choice is between feral cats and no feral cats, when in fact the real choice is between neutered, vaccinated feral cats and fertile, unvaccinated feral cats. Nature abhors a vacuum; other, wilder, sicker cats could move in to fill that niche (as Kaio pointed out above).

My friend has seen her neighborhood colony go down slowly in size over the years, and has worked to find homes for any kittens or friendly cats. The ferals are there – the question is how you want to deal with that fact.

To answer the OP’s question, I think the hotel made a misstep. It would have cost them nothing to continue to support Alley Cat Allie’s efforts here and gotten them some good karma and good publicity. Botching the removal means that they’ve annoyed people who may well make the decision to stay somewhere else, and I doubt they’ve won any new customers this way.

So if you get rid of the feral cats it will create a vacuum that will result in feral cats moving in from outside the area? Anyone have a cite that this is how it works? I know nature abhors a vacuum but feral cats aren’t exactly natural.

I think the hotel has an obligation to take reasonable steps to ensure the cats that are trapped are treated humanely. I haven’t seen anything to suggest that the cats aren’t being treated humanely. I doubt the hotel decided to trap the cats because they’re just big meanies who feel like being evil. As someone who has had to deal with a number of stray cats in the neighborhood, I sympathize with the hotel.

Here’s what I found with a bit of Google-snooping: http://www.humanesociety.org/issues/feral_cats/qa/feral_cat_FAQs.html#Why_doesnt_simply_removing_feral_cats_fr

http://www.apl-shelter.org/dotnetnuke/FeralCatProgram/tabid/63/Default.aspx

I don’t know how neutral these sources are.

How are feral cats not natural, though? They’re as natural as squirrels or birds.

If nothing else the risk of having a reproducing population of feral cats on property is reduced by having a neutered population on site occupying the niche.

Given that the chain markets itself as pet friendly the risk of adverse publicity from this move is significant, whereas the risk of a neutered population of feral cats on site adversely impacting their business was near zero. If anything their participation with neuter release could have been a marketing tool. One angry customer offsets ten who are satisfied and this move made a bunch of people pissed.

Ethically? Bad form. New management is not legally bound to continue previous plans but it is changing up after a nonprofit committed resources is still a wrong thing to do.

But as a business decision this is more than a misstep; this is a WTF were they thinking?

This coming from a man who hates cats and is very resentful that his neighbor feeds a group that live under her porch and consequently often on mine driving my greyhounds crazy. (Although we had no field mice in our house this year, and the chipmunk pest is down too, heck even the raccoons are staying away more …)

The CARE group will return the cats to the hotel grounds.

That’s right the hotel was kind enough to give the TNR program a try and it did not work. TNR programs are meant to end the colonies existence at some point. TNR programs are meant to have an end, not a continued support system.

When it comes to feral/stray cats the vacuum effect is not only bogus it is silly. Think about it, where do these other cats come from? Do they just morph from some magical place? The cats are already out there and yes continued trapping to rid an area of the feral/stray cats is harder than the TNR practice of trapping the cats that you see and then just dumping food in those areas it does work I can contest to this fact. What does return in their place is the NATURAL wildlife that had nearly been eradicated by these vermin. I love cats don’t get me wrong, but a cat is not natural in any environment and should not be allowed to roam freely anywhere.

What does work is Trap Neuter Protect Sanctuary. It is a win win for everyone including the feral/stray cats themselves. You can read field study after field study that shows when the artifical food source (the cat food that the so called good doers are dumping everywhere) is removed and you trap and trap and contiune to trap you WILL rid an area of the feral/stray cats. The cats are moved to an enclosed area that recieve on going vet care, food, water, and shelter. The natural balance of the area returns and the health risk to both human and owned animals is gone. If the TNR people would just stop and take a breath they might be able to see that Trap Neuter Protect Sanctuary is a better solution even for “their” cats and we could work together and really help the kitties. :smack:

From what I have seen on these sites they are not neutral, they don’t even mention another method of helping the feral/stray cats which is Trap Neuter Protect Sanctuary.

A cat is NOT natural in ANY environment. They are NOT as natural as squirrels or birds.

Native wildlife has not developed the mechanisms to live alongside non-native predator species. This causes an imbalance and can decimate local wildlife populations. Native predator-prey fluctuations are normal and maintain an ecological balance and biodiversity. No balance can exist between domestic cats (an exotic species) and native wildlife in the environment.

In the area that I live the TNR group has not only not eliminated or even reduced the feral/stray cat population they have made it worse. The group says well if people would stop dumping cats then we wouldn’t be seeing the colonies grow in size. Right, that’s what’s going on, not the fact that all they do is feed “their” cats and feed and feed. They claim to follow TNR and intelligently manage “their” colonies which is a blatant lie. There are two cats in their colony in my neighborhood that have a forever home waiting for them if they would trap them, but no they will not do it. In the last month or so I have reported to them that two regular female members of their colony have had litters, and that new adult members have shown up. I asked the group when the last time they trapped in my area (I have never seen them lay a trap not once, I do see them dump food in several areas on private property without permission several times a day and on public land which the town has told them to stop doing) they did not know, I asked them if I could use their traps to trap the two that could be off the street and I was told NO WAY would they ever let me use their traps, and when I asked them when they planned on trapping in my area next they told me that they felt that their colony was at a manageable size and they have no plans on trapping in my area including the new kittens which we know are not neutered and have not received any type of vet care nor the new adult members that may or may not be neutered and who knows what their health status is.

TNR does not work, is not the most humane way to address the issue, and does not protect human and owned animal health all it does do is make the so called good doers feel better about themselves. SHAME SHAME. Do what’s right for the cats themselves and put your money and resources into TRAP NEUTER PROTECT and SANCTUARY