Does a parent have any influence on a good relationship with their kid as adult ?

In My Humble Opinion
1

Bear with me: this will be a fuzzy and unclear and long post. It might also reveal some of my own issues. That’s because my thoughts on the subject are fuzzy and unclear, and I hope making a post out of it will clear them up.

What prompted this thread:
[ol]
[li]1. I see around me adults that take care of parents that were, frankly, either shitty parents or shitty people. They do so grinding their teeth. [/li][li]2. I see around me parents that say (and it may very well be true, or not) that they have sacrificed so much for their kids. Yet some of the kids are at best indifferent and at worst hostile. [/li][li]3. I see parents that were very good parents and not at all guilt tripping. They lead their own lives, but they do want to see their kids more then the kids want to see them. Those parents don’t guilt trip, but I do think they get far, far less out of the kids then they have given them. [/li][li]4. I see parents whose parenting doesn’t matter much, because as human beings, they and the kids just like each other as people, as friends, so they like hanging out together. [/li][li]5. I see, but not often, an intangible feeling of “love” from the kid to the parent. I suppose it is a feeling of security and warmth that comes from very early childhood, when the kid associates that warm feeling with the presence of that adult. In later years, the presence of that adult still invokes that warm feeling[/li][/ol].

My own conclusions so far is that there are a few ways in which a parent gets a lot in return from their kid.

[ul]
[li]a. the parent is an expert at dirty tricks and guilt tripping and the kid is either too sweet for his own good, or too cowed to rebel. [/li][li]b. the parent does nothing special, but the kid is just one of those people born with a large sense of responsibility. I don’t believe that the kid can be raised that way (except by accident). Some people just are born with a caring and responsible character. [/li][li]c. Parent and kid just like each other as human beings and they are friends. In addition, they may love each other.[/li][/ul]
All of the above are really just dumb luck, aren’t they?

Because there are also a a lot of ways in which the parent gains nothing from their parenthood, and those also can’t hardly be prevented. If the above were good luck, the list below is just bad luck.

[ul]
[li]I the parent is an expert at dirty tricks and guilt tripping, but the kid is onto him/her and the kid limits the contact to (virtually) zero. If the kid does show up, contact is cold and conflicted. [/li][li]II the parent does nothing special, and the kid is one of those ordinary human beings that aren’t very considerate or caring. If parent and kid live far apart, the contact will be few and far between. The kids vague guilt over his lack of care may even cause him to want to dwell less on his parent. [/li][li]III. Parent and kid tried their best, but they just don’t like each other as human beings. If that happens, they may also not *love *each other very much. I believe that a persons character shows even in baby and toddler age, and if characters don’t match then, relationships will always be strained. [/li][li]IV. The kid is, maybe through no-ones fault, a screwed up human being and doesn’t have much to offer to anybody. All he offers the parent is worry and the need to take continued care of the kid, while not really being able to help.[/li][/ul]

So, again, all the above are really just bad luck, no?

Back to myself. I have a mother. I don’t like her. She probably has narcisstic personality disorder. I take care of her a little, as little as possible, because she gets along better with my brother and my brother and me sort of have the deal that he takes care of mum and I take care of dad. I have spent years wondering if my moms narcissism is her fault or not, because that means that I can either blame her for her behavior and withdraw. Or, when it isn’t her fault, damnit, I have an obligation to help her.
My dad, I like more. Still, I often resent that I have taken care of my parents a lot more in their lives then they have taken care of me. And that will get worse as they age further. Both haven’t helped out in any way with my son, either. Even if they wanted to, they couldn’t, anymore then they could take care of me.

I also have a toddler son. I expect, maybe fear, him to grow up like his dad. His dad is not the most caring person in the world. His philosophy is more like: “everyone takes care of themselves, and if you ask help, I may, after a lot of stalling in the hope you will solve it yourself, come around to helping you”.
I am more the caring/meddling kind. (not extreme, though) I expect and fear that my kid won’t appreciate me a bit for that, and instead, may resent me for it. Which isn’t a pleasant thing to look forward to.
In all other ways, I am a good, or rather, a good enough parent. I don’t bully my kid in submission and I don’t guilt trip and I care, yet encourage indepence. I like him a lot as a person, and I tell him so. So I guess my best outcome will be II, the kid that reluctantly comes at Christmas.

I guess what it boils down to is that as a parent, you’re supposed to enjoy your kids when they are kids. My “payment” for my paternal care is the paternal care itself. Right? And all I can hope for is the luck to have a good relationship with my kid as he gets older. And I really don’t have much influence over that. The dice for that are already cast. My character is a given, as is my kids character.

2

And yes, I do realize the above post sounds cold an calculating and self centered. I write like that when I try to be “objective”.

3
  1. Taking care of your parents is not the same as having a good relationship with them, as you mention. My aunt’s second husband made it very clear that he wanted no relationship with her children; when he was dying and my cousin was helping ferry him, he asked her why did she do it “well, evidently it’s not for you, it’s so I can look at myself in the mirror. Whether you and my mother can or not is not my problem.”
  2. Like you say, it may be true, or not. IME the ones with the biggest mouths are the ones with the smallest deeds.
  3. If those parents guilt tripped they’d probably get to see their kids less. Do you know that there are other ways to make a relationship closer than guilt tripping? :smack:
  4. Uh… in those cases the parenting does matter a lot. Most of those parents happen to like their children, yes, but there is always something about your child you do not like, some times you bite your tongue, some times you say “that’s nice” and manage to sound perfectly sincere while actually thinking “please God let this not be as much of a bad idea as I think she is”. There comes a point where “parenting” becomes “human-being”: those parents have managed to achieve it successfully, big kudos to them. Not all parents do.
  5. And…? This is another facet of 4.
    And 6: why do you put parent-child relationship in terms of “getting something back”? It’s not an investment! Do you also spend your time with other people in your life balancing “what do I get from this person”? My best relationships, family and otherwise, are with people with whom there are NO balances to check. The ones who are always checking balances are the ones I want to throw off a cliff.
4

In that case, each person still gets something back, time pleasantly spent, positive human contact that is good for the soul, and a good relationship. I actually think people should be more attentive to what they get out of each other. Far to many contacts and “friendhips” are just out of passiveness, circumstance and habit, when both “friends” really don’t get much benefit out of each other anymore.

5

I think whenever you keep score in close relationships, you set yourself up for disappointment. Relationships are give and take, but I dont think they should be DEFINED by it.

6

What about raising a decent person? Why is that not on your list?

7

Damnit, the whole “you should’t keep score in a relationship” is not the focus of this thread and is only derailing it. I know it is the politically or emotionally correct thing to say, and of course it is true up to a point, but there is also a deeper truth.

And that is that we all have relationships that "feed"us, and then there are other relationships that drain us. And not in a good way.

It is quite possible to give a lot, not get much in return, at least not that the casual observer would see. And yet those relationships are rewarding. Because it feels good to help, or because the helpee pays back by being a wonderful person to the helper or to others. All of these emotions I tried to take into consideration when I speak of a balance.

When I speak of relationships that drain us, where the balance is off, I mean that the total balance is off, including those emotions below the surface. Not just what we do for each other, but also how we make each other feel, intentionally or not. My thread is about that total balance between adult parent and adult kid.

One last thing: it is quite possible, even common, for both people in the reationship to feel that they don’t get enough out of it, and yet continue the relationship.

8

Because that is not a factor in the relationship between parent and kid.

If my son is a decent person, that is a good thing, surely. The world and his loved ones will profit from that. But a person can be a decent human being and the relationship with the parent can still be shitty. And that relationship, that is what I am talking about.

9

To answer the question posed in your title (which I think is really asking ‘What can I do now as the parent of a child to ensure a good relationship when my child is an adult?’), yes, the parent has an influence on the relationship with their adult child. A relationship is, by its very definition, two-way, and one side of that is from the parent.

When I look around at myself and my peers, the best relationships seem to have the following factors:

  • during childhood, the child had a overall positive relationship with the parents
  • the nature of the relationship evolved over time, with the parents stepping back and allowing the teenager/young adult to take on their own decision making and to experience their own consequences
  • as an adult, the parent treats the adult child as an equal and expects to be treated as an equal in return.
10

I’m a little weirded out that you’re worrying about your adult son coming to visit for Christmas while he’s still a toddler but I’ll give this a shot.

My goal when my kids were young was not to be my mother. It took me until they were almost grown up to realize that I could remove my mother from my life without a negative impact to them but I finally did and it was so very worth it.

I have a good relationship with both of them and while I truly believe that it is mostly due to their inherent personalities I will take credit for a few things.

  • I never ever said a single negative thing about their father in their hearing nor allowed anyone else to do so. This was despite his constant conversations with them about his views on me and my life (HINT: He didn’t like me)
  • I encouraged and supported independance. From a very young age they were given appropriate responsibilities and rewarded when they were handled appropriately. Sometimes that reward was more freedom sometimes it was more responsibility.
  • I understand that the phone works both ways. It’s not their responsibility to call me. I am perfectly capable of picking up the phone and calling them.

My son is the quiet independant type and I typically call him more often than he calls me. That’s fine. My daughter is very similar to me in interests and personality and she’s more likely to call me before I get around to calling her. That’s fine too.

Up to this point both kids have decided to maintain a relationship with their father but I think that might be nearing the end for my daughter so I’ll include the lesson that he’ll never learn.

When your daughter is leaving for a year long school exchange program on another continent it’s a good idea to make an effort to see her before she goes. If you don’t it will make her remember all the other times you showed by your actions that she’s less important than your new family and it just might be enough to convince her you’re not worth her time either.

11

I know, that is what I meant under 1. The relationship is, in itself, unrewarding, yet kid or parent make it worthwhile by reframing it internally. While that works, it works. If it stops working, the relationship is off balance. I have personally experienced this. While I thought that I needed to solve moms crises, I was good. When I realized the would just make another crises, and also that my mom didn’t mind the havoc she wreaked, I couldn’t sell it to myself anymore. So that was when my relationship with my mom got unbalanced.

In my experience, the two things are only slightly correlated. The big-mouth-small-deed type is just the most conspicuous.

But that is exactly my point! Such parents walk on eggshells to avoid guilt tripping, because they are decent parents and human beings and because they know that it will be counterproductive. Yet there is still the reality that they might want to see more of their kids then the other way around, and know that they cant show that.
Actually, I don’t know the stats on this. The only objective difference is that the young generally are more busy (kids and job) then the older generation (just job, or even retired). But otherwise, individual miliage may vary. Perhaps there are as many adult kids who would like to get more attention from that parents as there are the other way around. And it is just that the image of the nagging “you could call more often, you know” mom is so popular.

True that. But I think that most people know this already, and it is the parents character that determines if she can keep showing such restraint. And a character is a given, up to a point. So that makes the outcome of this parenting style a given, no?

12

That is a very concise way of putting it. :slight_smile: But that is not what I mean. I’m more worried about the kind of relationship we will have at that point, in general. Who visits who for Christmas, and what negotiations and sighs of “do we really have to visit?” have preceded that, is just a symbol of that relationship.

And my point is that that relationship is determined now, or even, that it has already been determined.

13

I think the best thing that you can do to support the relationship that you want is to forget about it. Concentrate on doing the best thing for your kid and if you’re lucky it works out to the relationship that you wanted. There is so much you can’t control that you’ll drive yourself crazy if you try to and that itself will sabotage what you’re trying to accomplish.

14

The reality is that you don’t have as much control over that outcome as you think you do. Be a good parent, show genuine interest in their lives, actually parent them (manners, responsibility, etc), apologize when necessary. What happens in 20+ years has too many factors- do your best and chances are you’ll have a sincere relationship, in whatever form it takes.

15

Moonlitherial… you describe a few mistakes parents often make, and you assume that if a parent avoids those mistakes, a good relationship will follow.

My point is that that is only true up to a point. I try to make sense out of the fact that in the real world, shitty parents sometimes have good relationships with their kids, and good parents have bad relationships.

16

Exactly. Now I feel a bit deflated, because I think you are right. :slight_smile:

And it also follows from this that this parenting outcome isn’t always, or even often, fair.

17

I’ve found the not fair works more often in my direction- my son is 17 and daughter is 14 and damn, they seem to forgive me for all my parental screw ups (see note about apologizing!).

Honestly, I once said my goal in adolescence was to come through with a relationship intact. I still believe that, but I also learned that I was a parent first and I couldn’t subjugate that responsibility to always be buddies. There’s enough love and respect, I hope, that once this phase is over we can still have a sincere relationship, that’s a bit more equal and lighthearted. The kids own personalities count too- he’s always been a reserved aloof kid. It’s just him. I will always close the gap between us (as long as its a healthy relationship). If he can give 40%, I’ll give 60.

18

I forgot to answer to sandra_nz. I think you make a good summary of the most inportant points.
Maybe I should tell wher this question comes from. I am not asking for advice on the level of a Dear Abby parenting forum. I am a psychologist, and have read about a yard ::stretches arms apart the size of a big fish:: of parenting books. What got to me is the suggestion of control most of them sell; the idea that if you only do this, and don’t do that, you have a fair chance of a good relationship.
Yet I also have read a ton of self-help books "::stretches arms apart the size of a slightly bigger fish:: that conveniently blame all sorts of psychological problems on bad parenting.

Reading such books is now a two edged sword. For everything I want to blame my mom for, I have to take a real honest look at what my parenting brings my son. I’m probably overthinking that one. :slight_smile:

But those carp-sized row of books I read also try to console daughters (it’s mostly daughters) who feel bullied/blackmailed/misguided into having one-sided relationships with their moms. The books vindicate the daughters, and give tips how to make the relationship more equal, or how to get out. Now, assume these books are talking about a real situation, and are not a way for selfish daughters to feel good about being even more selfish.
If the books are about a real imbalance, (and I think they do) then there must be a lot of daughters who pick up the relationship slack of their moms, no? So there must be a lot of moms whose parenting was shitty, and yet get emotionally and in other ways cared for by their daughters. I sometimes even wondered if such moms weren’t the majority. Judging from the complaints about moms on these boards, it certainly seems common. Having had such a mom myself (or have I?) probably also makes me see such moms everywhere.

19

[quote=“Maastricht, post:1, topic:631760”]

[li]b. the parent does nothing special, but the kid is just one of those people born with a large sense of responsibility. I don’t believe that the kid can be raised that way (except by accident). Some people just are born with a caring and responsible character. [/li][/QUOTE]

This is where I disagree with you. Parents have an obligation to teach their kids to be responsible caring people. It’s not just by luck that they end up that way. Some kids who have shitty parents do become responsible caring people, but they learned it somewhere else. Those aren’t character traits that you are born with, they are learned behaviors.

20

I think it’s unquestionable that parents have a great deal of influence on their children. How that influence plays out will depend on all the many factors and generalizations aren’t very useful when you reduce it to a narrow topic like this.

Based on a conversation between my kids years back I know that my kids plan to send their mother to a home while I get to live in the basement in one of their houses. One of them claims he’ll never get a house with a basement to avoid that responsibility. I haven’t bothered to see if the plan has changed since they’ve become adults because neither one can support himself much less buy a house.