Does anyone else have a hard accepting republican voters are decent people lately?

[Aspenglow]

@Grumbacher_Red

Thank you for this! I am saving your post. This does make total sense to me and it is nice to have it all in one place.

What would you say are the major influencers on the Democratic side? I am not being flippant, I just want to know, because I think it is pretty safe to say Big Money has infiltrated both parties. I would be interested on your take on that.

It has infiltrated both parties, but not in the same ways and not to the same ends. The distinctions are important.

Here’s a link to a list from Open Secrets that tracks disclosed donations: Overview of Top Individual Donations

Jeff Bezos (Amazon) purchased the Washington Post, but that doesn’t mean he required his reporters to spew lies in order to advance a liberal agenda. WaPo remains one of the most reliably accurate news organizations for providing factual, provable information to the public. That’s not how the Mercers did it when they funded Breitbart, or Rupert Murdoch when he funded Fox “News.”

Fundamentally, that’s the difference I see in big money donated to each side. In general, liberals will donate to institutions and candidates whom they believe will advance basic ideals of liberalism. No specific strings are attached. So-called neo-conservatives – and they are not the traditional conservatives I remember from years past – donate money to institutions and candidates from whom they require specific political responses. “We will give you money with the requirements that you give us the tax cuts we have dictated to you, repeal and replace (haha!) of the health care bill, appoint these judges, remove these specific regulations.”

Big difference.

I have no problem limiting contributions to political parties on both sides and doing away with PACs and super PACs entirely. Rulings in Citizens United, SpeechNow.org and McCutcheon need to go away. We currently have a nightmare of campaign finance that favors those who are willing to turn a blind eye to decency, honesty and any genuine desire to advance basic wellbeing for the most citizens in our country.

[Siam_Sam]

“Does anyone else have a hard accepting republican voters are decent people lately?” I sure do. I used to give Republicans the benefit of the doubt, thought they just didn’t know any better, but really, they’re just mean and vicious people. You may as well be asking, “Does anyone else have a hard accepting Nazis are decent people lately?” or “Does anyone else have a hard accepting child molesters are decent people lately?”

[Grumbacher_Red]

@k9bfriender

I don’t feel I was indoctrinated into moving to the left by any sort of persuasion or propaganda, I feel I was shoved away from the right by their own hypocrisy.

Ditto!

[Grumbacher_Red]

@Aspenglow

Big difference.

I have no problem limiting contributions to political parties on both sides and doing away with PACs and super PACs entirely. Rulings in Citizens United, SpeechNow.org and McCutcheon need to go away. We currently have a nightmare of campaign finance that favors those who are willing to turn a blind eye to decency, honesty and any genuine desire to advance basic wellbeing for the most citizens in our country.

Many thanks! You didn’t have to go and do all the legwork and I appreciate it, this is helpful.

[Trinopus]

In my opinion, the problem isn’t that the typical right-wing rank-and-file, base, core-supporter is, let’s say, a racist. It is that he doesn’t care very much about racism. It doesn’t rile him. He figures blacks have got legal equality, and don’t need anything more. He thinks restaurant owners ought to have the legal right to exclude blacks as customers – it’s private property, isn’t it?

They aren’t evil. They just are able to accommodate themselves to evil. They’re the ones who don’t speak out when “they” come for the Jews, because they are not Jews. “All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing.”

The right wing, today, consists of those “good people.”

[Quartz]

@nate

I truly believe there is a physical difference in the liberal and conservatives mind.

So let’s mark them as different. Let’s make them wear something - a star, perhaps - so we can know who these traitorous people are. Then later perhaps we could encourage them to group together in camps for the safety of the rest of us. After all, they’re physically different, subhuman, aren’t they?

[Sicks_Ate]

@Trinopus

In my opinion, the problem isn’t that the typical right-wing rank-and-file, base, core-supporter is, let’s say, a racist. It is that he doesn’t care very much about racism. It doesn’t rile him. He figures blacks have got legal equality, and don’t need anything more. He thinks restaurant owners ought to have the legal right to exclude blacks as customers – it’s private property, isn’t it?

They aren’t evil. They just are able to accommodate themselves to evil. They’re the ones who don’t speak out when “they” come for the Jews, because they are not Jews. “All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing.”

The right wing, today, consists of those “good people.”

Second or third best post of this thread.

I’m not actually keeping track, but it’s pretty good, so it must be.

[Little_Nemo]

@Aspenglow

I have no problem limiting contributions to political parties on both sides and doing away with PACs and super PACs entirely. Rulings in Citizens United, SpeechNow.org and McCutcheon need to go away. We currently have a nightmare of campaign finance that favors those who are willing to turn a blind eye to decency, honesty and any genuine desire to advance basic wellbeing for the most citizens in our country.

The real key decision, in my opinion was Buckley v Valeo in 1976. That was the decision that came up with the idea that giving money to somebody was a form of speech.

[Little_Nemo]

@kopek

If Trump had been a life-long active Republican and if he had been elected only because of an overwhelmingly huge turn-out of registered Republicans I could probably project my hatred to anyone from that party. Since that wasn’t the case I’ll just disagree with them as I normally would and not hold the current situation against the general rank and file.

No, that doesn’t fly with me.

Trump tried to get nominated as a Democrat on several occasions. Democrats rejected him.

Trump then switched to the Republicans. The Republicans embraced him; they nominated him and elected him President. So the Republicans are to blame for the Trump presidency.

[Ulfreida]

For me, the problem with the now-republicans is that they believe and defend unimaginably grotesque lies and conspiracy theories. I can remember when republicans were simply the boring party, the people who were suspicious of innovation and were in favor of caution and stability. Which is a legitimate political stance and a necessary role, in my opinion. But now they are the kind of people who carry on shouted conversations with invisible antagonists on the street, and are about as interested in facts as an evangelical missionary. They are scary crazy, and yes, respect is not the response.

[Mdcastle]

@septimus

Grumbacher Red, you have fallen for racist propaganda. Racists don’t announce to the world that they hate blacks; they construct alternate realities in which their grievances seem fair.

Only in a pretend-world are whites discriminated against, as the neo-Nazis would have you believe.

Maybe being called “racist” (and deplorable, and before that bitter religious gun nust) is a big reason that as the OP noted that Republicans are starting to demonize Democrats rather than work with them like was more common during the past couple of Republican administrations.

Denying someone admission to college because their skin color is white instead black seems to be as racist as you can get.

[Asimovian]

@Mdcastle

Denying someone admission to college because their skin color is white instead black seems to be as racist as you can get.

I believe it is possible to be more racist.

[nate]

@Quartz

So let’s mark them as different. Let’s make them wear something - a star, perhaps - so we can know who these traitorous people are. Then later perhaps we could encourage them to group together in camps for the safety of the rest of us. After all, they’re physically different, subhuman, aren’t they?

Yes, that’s exactly what I’m suggesting. You have quite the talent at mind reading.

[Trinopus]

@Mdcastle

. . . Denying someone admission to college because their skin color is white instead black seems to be as racist as you can get.

And this happens how often? What are the statistics? How many whites have been denied admission because of their skin color? How many blacks have been denied admission because of low high school grades…correlated with the racial makeup of their neighborhood…correlated with government spending on education in their precincts?

You want to make it childishly simple, but the ugly facts are that blacks do not have equality of opportunity in this country, whereas whites have a surplus of opportunity.

Legacy admissions to colleges is an example of white privilege.

You might just as well point to some white guy getting shot by a policeman, and shout, “See? Black people aren’t being targeted.” They are, if you look at the real numbers.

[Grumbacher_Red]

@Trinopus

And this happens how often? What are the statistics? How many whites have been denied admission because of their skin color? How many blacks have been denied admission because of low high school grades…correlated with the racial makeup of their neighborhood…correlated with government spending on education in their precincts?

I am in overall agreement with you but since this was brought up, I will relay a personal experience with this.

I can cite no studies, but I can tell you it does have a way of bringing somebody down to Earth when it happens to someone you know. I have a colleague, a white woman married to black man (who is also a Republican, but that’s a whole other can of worms) and they have a daughter, we’ll call her Shayna. Now Shayna finished high school last year and is the epitome of Little Miss Social Justice Warrior, but her parents indulge her because she is young and don’t know hen shit from a pump handle at this point in her life…

Her mother tells me amusing stories of how Shayna will play whatever side of the racial angle is going to best serve her purposes, but again she is young, and biracial and she has a lot about life to figure out.

Shayna’s best friend is a white male who happens to be gay (not that there’s anything wrong with that, a la Seinfeld). Let’s call him Brandon. Both of these kids are very smart, went to a pretty fancy private school together, and both applied to the University of Florida in Gainesville. Brandon’s SAT scores were higher than Shayna’s, but they both more than met the requirement, so they are both planning their wonderful freshman year and all the fun they are going to have together.

Until…Shayna comes busting in the door one day all in a huff because Brandon did not get in. She is beside herself with anger. She is pitching a wall-eyed fit because to her this makes no sense! Her father says, “Baby Girl, I hate to tell you but he didn’t get in because he is a white male.” Now remember, Shayna’s dad is a black man. Shayna applied as black female. Shayna is still in an apoplectic fit, “WELL! He should get in because he is GAY!!”

Her father just told her that she has much to learn, and sometimes in order for one person to have a chance, somebody else has gotta get a raw deal. Brandon is going to another school and hopefully plans to transfer to UF after a couple of semesters.

Now honestly, I don’t really feel sorry for Brandon himself. He comes from a family with good resources and he will be just fine. But Shayna’s reaction, well, both her parents feel it was a valuable lesson!

I worry more about kids who come from poorly performing public schools and there is no legacy or resources for them to latch onto, and I don’t really care what color or persuasion they are, that is a disadvantage,

[k9bfriender]

@Grumbacher_Red

Until…Shayna comes busting in the door one day all in a huff because Brandon did not get in. She is beside herself with anger. She is pitching a wall-eyed fit because to her this makes no sense! Her father says, “Baby Girl, I hate to tell you but he didn’t get in because he is a white male.” Now remember, Shayna’s dad is a black man. Shayna applied as black female. Shayna is still in an apoplectic fit, “WELL! He should get in because he is GAY!!”

I am just curious if you know how the father new the admissions criteria for Brandon? Is he on the admissions board, or have a friend on it that leaked that sort of privileged information?

Or was his statement just an uninformed guess with no evidence other than his preconceptions?

[Grumbacher_Red]

@k9bfriender

I am just curious if you know how the father new the admissions criteria for Brandon? Is he on the admissions board, or have a friend on it that leaked that sort of privileged information?

Or was his statement just an uninformed guess with no evidence other than his preconceptions?

Her father is a school administrator and has many insider friends in higher education, so I know he has some kind of an inside track on how how these things work, but I have no idea how deep it goes. I have always felt he knows what he is talking about. He may not know anything about Brandon’s particular case, and was just speaking from experience and impressions.

[monstro]

I didn’t get accepted to Ohio State. And I’m a black woman.

When I got the rejection letter, I sued the universe for failing to protect me from the shittiness of life. I was awarded the world’s smallest violin. I took it with me when I went to Rutgers, where it kind of came in handy.

[Trinopus]

@Grumbacher_Red

" . . . I hate to tell you but he didn’t get in because he is a white male." . . .

I’ll have to second the objection: he doesn’t know that for sure. There might be a secondary correlation, such as income, or the quality of his admission essay. A pure SAT score comparison isn’t enough.

And…yeah, it could happen. But it happens far more that blacks are denied equal opportunity, so, until you can take the plank out of your own eye, don’t make too much a deal about the speck in mine.

[Grumbacher_Red]

@monstro

I didn’t get accepted to Ohio State. And I’m a black woman.

When I got the rejection letter, I sued the universe for failing to protect me from the shittiness of life. I was awarded the world’s smallest violin. I took it with me when I went to Rutgers, where it kind of came in handy.

Well that was sorta my point of telling this story, to show that these situations DO happen. Ultimately both of these kids maybe needed to learn a lesson about the shittiness of life. Both these kids went to private school, have parents who support them in their educational endeavors, and already have a leg up on the game and will both be fine in the end. Yeah, Brandon is gonna have to do a runaround, but such is life.

At least they got that far.

What about the kids, of all races, who aren’t so lucky and have bought into whatever propaganda and general misinformation has come from their crappy public school and their trifling parents, that college is some unattainable thing, and it isn’t for you and your kind, and they don’t even try to reach educational goals because they think, “Eh, I won’t get it, anyway.” Those are the ones to worry about and help, no matter what color they are. That’s my whole idea about this.