Today we’ve got Trump threatening to send in US troops if the governors don’t solve things to his satisfaction. Yes, things will get worse.
I keep wondering if we’ve got boiling frog syndrome. It just keeps getting worse and worse. No one notices how bad things are compared to where we were a few years ago, because there’s always something bad happening Right Now that consumes all of our energy.
Nope. I was optimistic at the start of the outbreak and for a lot longer than I can really justify. I now find myself looking around and wondering why people think anything is going to be OK.
I do still feel that I’ll probably be, if not unscathed, at least a lot less scathed than many. There might even be some perks for me in all the shit that’s just starting to rain down on us. The inevitable spike in domestic and child abuse during quarantine assures my job security. Once the economy tanks and the housing market collapses, I might be able to afford to buy someone’s foreclosed American dream at auction for a rock-bottom price. My husband got a new job and has been able to do it entirely from home, something that wasn’t previously allowed, and he’s using his free time to cook all kinds of delicious food for us. I’m saving money by shore diving ($5 per dive to fill my tank vs. $160/day with tips for a spot on a dive boat.) But it’s 5pm and I can’t leave my apartment because of the curfew in response to the protests, so I’m still gonna go with everything sucks and is on track to only get worse for a while, even for the luckiest among us.
Obviously, I should have been a little more specific with my OP (and emphasized the whole “I am NOTdenying things can get worse” thing even more).
The folks I was thinking of in my OP seem, in my eyes, to have given up, and tacitly encouraging me to do the same, by implying that any hope for the future is naive and futile. The kinds of people where I read what they say, and I think, “have you quit your job and stopped planning for a future?” or “I hope this person doesn’t hurt themselves or the children in their life.” I think that’s what I was trying to get at when I mentioned the constant jokes about suicide earlier. If things really are that hopeless, then the logical thing to do is to vote for and join Trump. They’ll probably have the sweetest deal in the dictatorship up until climate change kills everyone on the planet. Might as well survive and preserve ones own position as best we can. No point in fighting when the battle is already lost.
The above doesn’t apply to you? Great! It’s just hard to tell (for me) who it DOES apply to, and it’s not like I do so for every single person with dire warnings. I guess I’d summarize it as being similar to why some folks haven’t liked some of asahi’s posts at times.
But hey, maybe my incredible privilege is keeping me from seeing how bad things are. That could very well be. But it just seems like some people want me huddled on the ground in tears. No thanks.
Maybe some people feel that naïveté and mindless optimism based on one’s own privilege is a big part of the problem? I know that’s what I think.
First of all, calling the belief that recent events probably aren’t an existential threat to me, the general public, the nation, or human civilization “naïveté and mindless optimism” is just what I was talking about. One more time: I AM NOT DENYING IT COULD GET WORSE. IT PROBABLY WILL. I’m just saying that a lot of random people seem to think that this, what we’re seeing right now, is The End of America, and I just don’t see it. Climate change is the closest thing I’m concerned about, and even then, the closest thing it has to do with NOW are potential ripple effects in November that haven’t fully taken shape yet.
If I’m wrong, and it is the End Times, why assign blame? The United States is going to fall into totalitarianism with or without me, and we’re all dead from climate change regardless. Again, that’s my whole point: if someone has given up, they should say so. Then at least I have context for them sneering at and dismissing every possible ray of hope for the future.
Now that I think about it, though, I believe that my ranting all comes from the belief that fatalism = inaction and apathy, and discouragement of action and caring. If I’m wrong about that, feel free to disabuse me of the notion.
Seriously, though, thank you. It was bugging the hell out of me that I couldn’t seem to articulate my feelings towards the kind of despair I was talking about in a coherent way, and now, thanks to your response, I feel like I can.
I would argue that this quote is the height of mindless optimism and naïveté. I would also argue that this attitude held by many many has lead to a complacency that has caused great harm in the world.
Leaper, I don’t know if encountered the kind of “random” people you’re talking about. But I have met people who are clearly depressed about their personal lives and they want someone to understand why they feel so hopeless. These folks tend to reject assurances that everything is going to be alright because this is a platitude and platitudes almost always suck. Most advice seems like a platitude when you’re in the thick of depression.
But I don’t know if there has been an uptick in these people. Wouldn’t be surprised if there has been, but depressed people aren’t a new thing.
To swing in another direction…
I just had a long-ass conversation with my mother the other day. We talked about the protests and the riots. She’s the most optimistic and hopeful person I know. sSe’s annoyingly optimistic. Her optimism is so intense that for years I couldn’t talk to her about anything going on in my life because she could never relate to any of my worries or concerns. Fortunately for my sanity, I’ve developed the assertiveness to pushback on her “JESUS WILL SAVE US” mentality.
Anyway, just the other day she started talking doom-and-gloom. Said she was sick of America and wanted to move to another country. Said she thought all black people should move to another country, because America is crumbling before our eyes. And suddenly I’m like, “Wait a minute! Are you serious right now? You’re really going to give up now? After 400 years of struggle, you think we should give up now?”
It was the strangest conversation I’ve ever had with my mother and believe me we’ve had some doozies over the years.
I don’t think she’s depressed. I think the opposite. She is stoked by the idea that she’s a part of history–even if it is tragic history. For years she believed that she would live to see the Rapture and Jesus’s return. She’s moved away from that (IMHO, crazy) position but adopted another fantastical one–that she would live to see the downfall of America. It’s a more realistic scenario than witnessing the Rapture, to be fair. But it’s still obviously a fantasy–one where she and her family survives but everything else burns to the ground. So it really isn’t doom-and-gloom. She’s not really despairing over anything. She just wants to see some shit go down–not really thinking about what that would entail for her and her loved ones.
Perhaps these randoms you’ve encountered are the same way.
Right now, there’s an astronomer going to his boss saying, “I don’t know if this is a good time… but that comet’s coming right for us.”
Gallows humor helps. Everyone’s a nihilist while staring at their own noose.
I think that pretending things aren’t bad doesn’t fix anything and that being an adult means assessing the magnitude of a problem so that you can be part of its solution. In this case, the solution is going to be multi-generational and require real sacrifice from people.
I wonder if you generally being anxious makes a difference? Perhaps the bad year we’ve been having won’t make as much of an impact if you were anxious already.
I have noticed a significant uptick in a general doom and gloom feeling, but that pre-dated current events. And even the people who feel that way are still going out, doing their jobs, falling in love, etc. Most of them are still having babies if they really want to. The doom they’re expecting is more long-term, or, even if it’s within the next few years, it’s just the new normal.
This year probably will get worse, but that doesn’t mean next year can’t improve - or at least some things will improve in a few years’ time, in a cycle. Overall, personally, I think most things are going to get slightly worse for most people, like a drip-drip of bad events, and significantly worse for others. A few very rich people will benefit. Hopefully I’m wrong.
We’re really not living through a cheerful and hopeful time in history. Multiple civil wars, the refugee crisis, the environment, the economy, increasingly wide political divides, the gig economy… Some of it will probably get better at some point, but after several years of things going increasingly badly, it’s not surprising if people don’t feel that way.
Then you aren’t engaging in inaction and apathy, nor by trying to get others to agree with you are you encouraging it in others. You’re good with me, as far as I’m concerned.
Just promise me that you are preparing to get through this Winter while you whistle against the storm. Then I won’t feel the need to stomp mercilessly on your optimism in order to save your life.
:twitch:
Okay, let me try to apply my newfound realizations to this post, merely as an example here.
When I first read it, I think you’re calling “I’m skeptical that the United States will collapse into a shooting civil war and totalitarianism” as “optimism” to be “stomped on.” Therefore, I think, you are saying that such a result is very likely or inevitable. Such a belief is often/usually accompanied with apathy and inaction (“why bother fighting? The nation is doomed anyway”), and that you’re encouraging me to do and feel the same. Therefore I react with visceral disgust.
As I said before, I think this disconnect is behind some of the reactions to asahi a few years ago. I am not, and have never, thought that “oh, we can just do nothing and Trump will stand down and everything will be fine no matter what happens from here on in.” I was objecting to fatalism which, as I see it, discourages people from taking action at all. As long as you’re not encouraging me to just lie down and die, we have no problems with each other, and you can rest assured that my view of the future is probably closer to yours than you think.
Is this any clearer?
Well, if my suburban area is any indication, the economy is roaring back. I made the mistake of getting to go pick up lunches at 2 shops today. I was the only customer wearing a mask in either place. And I was glad I was wearing one. The shops were crowded. Which besides good for the shop indicates people have money for non-essential purchases. But what impressed me was how busy the employees were. They were all hustling. Lots of walk-in customers on top of a great call-in order business. And everyone is raising prices to cover their increased costs. That doesn’t appear to be slowing business. Given that the feds will never again call for a shutdown of the economy and no state is going to do that without cover from the Federal Government, businesses will bounce right back. Oil will stay down, which will help the car budget.
Maybe it’s what I’ll call the “Pessimistic weather man effect”.
If he says the forecast is for fair weather, and it turns out to be foul, people feel resentful. If he says that the forecast is for foul weather, and it really turns out to be foul, well he was right then, and others see that, and he’s covered his ass. If he forecasts foul weather and the weather is actually fair, well then he’s wrong, but nobody really cares or they’ve forgotten what he said because they’re just happy the weather is nice.
I do have to admit, I’m a bit worried about the food supply.
I don’t think we’ll run out, but there will be enough shortages to drive up prices.
There’s a lot more to the economy than food businesses. They’re the ones that have mostly done fine during the pandemic - grocery stores were never even closed anywhere that I know of, and generally food businesses that could provide drive-in or delivery were allowed to stay open too. So they’re a really bad indicator of whether the economy is booming or not.
Raising prices to cover increased costs will only last so long when unemployment is high and people have less money to spend.
Also, If people are using credit cards for all that food when they used to use cash, that would tell a different story too.
People have to eat. I haven’t bought any new clothes in months though.