DOES anyone on this board believe in ghosts?

[DrFidelius]

I do not believe in ghosts or other spirits. I find that belief only encourages them to act out.

[Thudlow_Boink]

1 here.

I can’t say “ghosts [of whatever sort] don’t exist” with 100% surety, because I can’t back up that statement with logic or experience.

[ralph124c]

I’ll believe, once I see one.
I haven’t seen one yet.

[Kobal2]

@ivan_astikov

We’re here, and it’s a big universe where the seemingly unlikely does happen.

Well, it’d be pretty unlikely for us to be the only sentients. Maybe a million to one chance. Those happen 9 times out of 10, right ?

@erez

This forum is dominated by liberals and they are known believe in such BS, so I’m sure you will find some that do (but will they admit it here?).

“Conservatives and Republicans report fewer experiences than liberals or Democrats communicating with the dead, seeing ghosts and consulting fortunetellers or psychics.” The liberals also more often believe in astrology. http://pewforum.org/Other-Beliefs-an…le-Faiths.aspx.

Seriously ? You’re trying to turn a thread about ghosts into some kind of political partisan chicanery ?.. SERIOUSLY ?

[Mr.Accident]

I believe in ghosts and poltergeists. I’ve experienced to much weird stuff not to.

However, I don’t automatically jump to the conclusion that it’s a ghost when something weird happens, nor do I believe every ghost story I read or hear without first ruling out as many mundane explanations as I can.

[Thudlow_Boink]

You know, this is one of those threads where the thread title and the OP ask significantly different questions, which leads to confusion because some posters are answering one question while others are answering the other.

(In this case, the title asks whether anyone does believe, while the OP dismisses this “#3” possibility.)

[Anaamika]

I do not believe in ghosts.

All my life I have had early sleep paralysis and not known what it was. One of the ‘symptoms’ of this is waking up to think someone is sitting on your chest, a succubus or incubus, holding you down. For years and years and years people believed it was demonic possession. I knew it wasn’t that, but had no idea what was wrong with me.

In my thirties I suddenly discovered what it was. And that it affects about 30% of the population. That goes a long way towards explaining the hundreds and thousands of reports of succubi and incubi.

That’s just one small way humans deceive themselves all day, every day. You think humans are objective? Listen to the witnesses of a crime scene.

Who knows what we will discover tomorrow? The true causes of ‘ghost’ sightings are probably due to a myriad of things, poor lighting, vision, imagination…I notice that I don’t believe in ghosts and I never see one. Do they not manifest to me? More likely, I don’t mistake simple things for ghosts.

And of course there is evidence that will convince me. Empirical studies in the lab, repeated over time and with different people doing the testing.

[kopek]

@outlierrn

I’m a 1.
It’s a great big noisy beautiful universe, people who claim that if it’s not in their book it doesn’t exist make me nauseous. It doesn’t matter if they’re waving a science book or a religious book.

I’ll second that post.

[Half_Man_Half_Wit]

@Der_Trihs

Some would, yes. Just look at the popularity of stories that contain both magic and an attempt to explain it.

If there’s some purported magic that has a reasonable scientific explanation, then what makes it magic? What sets it apart from any other random physical interaction?

[Sablicious]

My open-minded opinion: Ghosts (if they exist - have no experience of it personally) are likely some ‘cosmic footprint’ or remnant of actions long past -or- some parallel dimensional manifestation.
I think so many claiming to have experience seeing ghosts likely (through the sheer weight of numbers) indicates there is some [form] of truth to the phenomenon.

But the whole ‘ghost of my father came back to tell me he’s sorry for touching me as a kid’ metaphysical tripe is a bit too much of me to swallow, I’m afraid.

Need a more rational (appreciates irony) explanation than ‘magic’.

[Idle_Thoughts]

@Thudlow_Boink

You know, this is one of those threads where the thread title and the OP ask significantly different questions, which leads to confusion because some posters are answering one question while others are answering the other.

(In this case, the title asks whether anyone does believe, while the OP dismisses this “#3” possibility.)

Well, I only dismissed it because I didn’t think anyone would just come outright and say “Yes, I believe in ghosts”. I was wrong.
By all means, if someone does, don’t dismiss number 3.

[Marley23]

@Mijin

@Marley23

If there were any nonphysical component to people, the idea that it would just hang around places the person liked to visit or where they died or that it would try to finish the good old unfinished-business-from-life is kind of ridiculous and it’s a sign that these are stories we tell ourselves because we’re looking for a way to deal with the concept of death.

I think that feature of ghosts makes them somewhat more plausible.
They’re reported as though they are just some sort of after-image; not a sentient being.
In the linked thread, the woman’s recently-deceased husband is sat in a chair apparently doing nothing. That woman must realise that if her husband had visited her, he wouldn’t do that.

I don’t agree with the distinction you’re drawing here: there’s no rule saying ghosts can only be the after-image type and not sentient. Maybe people prefer to call them spirits or something else if they stick around and carry on a conversation, but the idea is the same: it’s the human consciousness continuing to exist after death and then making itself physical in some way. I don’t agree with you about the plausibility issue. I think it’s much easier to accept that kind of haunting as a trick of vision. When it’s going on Ms. Widow is definitely not going to be consciously aware that if her husband was really appearing before her, he wouldn’t just be sitting there. And there’s no particular way to know what he wound do or wouldn’t do in that situation anyway.

@outlierrn

I’m a 1.
It’s a great big noisy beautiful universe, people who claim that if it’s not in their book it doesn’t exist make me nauseous. It doesn’t matter if they’re waving a science book or a religious book.

I think that’s an unfortunate comparison and I’m not convinced there’s any equivalence there. I have never heard of anyone deciding that ghosts don’t exist because they read it in a book, and the evidence is pretty firmly on their side.

[DanBlather]

I’m keeping an open mind that people who start threads saying something “might exist, you never know for sure” are really dogs with opposable thumbs who can type. I mean you can’t really know for sure. The universe is a big place and science doesn’t know everything.

ETA: Question for believers: if you believe in ghosts, what is so “out there” that you would not believe?

[DanBlather]

@Mr.Accident

I believe in ghosts and poltergeists. I’ve experienced to much weird stuff not to.

See if you can contact the spirit of your dead English teacher.

[Der_Trihs]

@Half_Man_Half_Wit

@Der_Trihs

Some would, yes. Just look at the popularity of stories that contain both magic and an attempt to explain it.

If there’s some purported magic that has a reasonable scientific explanation, then what makes it magic? What sets it apart from any other random physical interaction?

That it works by persuasion, symbolism, or an effort of will. Magic is largely a matter of anthropomorphizing the universe; words and symbolism manipulate people, magic is typically an attempt to use words and symbols to manipulate the larger universe.

[Freudian_Slit]

@ivan_astikov

I believe that there is something we call ghosts which we haven’t managed to explain yet. Maybe it’s like a quantum thing and the act of trying to measure it nullifies what it is you are trying to measure?

On a scale of 0 - 10, where 0 is “Gollum is a real person” and 10 is “I am typing this post”, ghosts would be about a “3”, God, as depicted by all major religions, would be a “0”, Bruce Lee being killed by Shaolin Monks would be a “1” and that we are not the most sentient creatures in the universe would be a “10”.

I hope that clears up this matter once and for all.

How is Bruce Lee being killed by Shaolin monks more real than God or Gollum?

[ivan_astikov]

@Freudian_Slit

@ivan_astikov

I believe that there is something we call ghosts which we haven’t managed to explain yet. Maybe it’s like a quantum thing and the act of trying to measure it nullifies what it is you are trying to measure?

On a scale of 0 - 10, where 0 is “Gollum is a real person” and 10 is “I am typing this post”, ghosts would be about a “3”, God, as depicted by all major religions, would be a “0”, Bruce Lee being killed by Shaolin Monks would be a “1” and that we are not the most sentient creatures in the universe would be a “10”.

I hope that clears up this matter once and for all.

How is Bruce Lee being killed by Shaolin monks more real than God or Gollum?

Because Bruce Lee and the Shaolin Monks existed beyond my subjective opinion and works of fiction. Allegedly.

[Der_Trihs]

@Freudian_Slit

How is Bruce Lee being killed by Shaolin monks more real than God or Gollum?

Both Bruce Lee and Shaolin monks are or were real? So, in theory they could have killed him at least. Whereas purely fictional creatures like God and Gollum can’t do anything even in theory.

[Half_Man_Half_Wit]

@Der_Trihs

@Half_Man_Half_Wit

If there’s some purported magic that has a reasonable scientific explanation, then what makes it magic? What sets it apart from any other random physical interaction?

That it works by persuasion, symbolism, or an effort of will. Magic is largely a matter of anthropomorphizing the universe; words and symbolism manipulate people, magic is typically an attempt to use words and symbols to manipulate the larger universe.

Well, that you can make the universe do things by being persuasive or really, really wanting it to is not quite what I had in mind regarding a scientific explanation…

Anyway, this is probably veering too far into hijack territory, and it’s largely only a difference in semantics. To me, magic is about defying natural law, bending the universe from its course to one obeying your wish and whim; if it’s not that, then it’s just business as usual, ordinary physical interactions, everything following perfectly natural rules. I’m not going to try to dissuade you from using the word magic that way, but I don’t really see the use of it – if magic is just ordinary interaction, everything is magic, and nothing is. Kinda robs the word of meaning.

[Der_Trihs]

@Half_Man_Half_Wit

I’m not going to try to dissuade you from using the word magic that way, but I don’t really see the use of it – if magic is just ordinary interaction, everything is magic, and nothing is. Kinda robs the word of meaning.

I didn’t say it was “ordinary interaction”; anything but. Drawing a symbol on the floor and having it confine something isn’t “ordinary interaction”; nor is burning a picture of something and having the original catch on fire.