I was thinking about “dark fantasy” the other day, but I realized that I couldn’t think of a single book or series that really fits the bill. Does it exist?
I’m talking about dark fantasy - no swashbuckling adventures here. I guess the genre would be more of a direct descendent of Lord Dunsany, with the tone of something like that - closer to HP Lovecraft than JRR Tolkien, but still fantasy, not horror. I’m talking withcraft, incestuous relationships, demons, necromancy, vampire kingdoms, the king taking a child bride for his queen, doomed knights in a fallen world/kingdom, and so on.
There’s some argument about whether it exists as a literary genre, but, the term Dark Fantasy has some use, anyway.
It’s a bit nebulous in what it refers to, to be sure, which is why such argument exists - generally it refers to works that straddle, or at least edge towards, the line between Fantasy and Horror. It also tends to stradle other subgenres of Fantasy, being defined more by the atmosphere than the setting or fantastic element.
And, of course, there’s DF art. The works of Brom are a perfect example.
VCO3: Is it fair to say that your conception of ‘Dark Fantasy’ is fairly close to Gothic Horror? Ruined castles, perversely decadent royal families, and especially vampires are all hallmarks of what is commonly called Gothic fiction.
(BTW, what is the dividing line between Horror and Fantasy in your mind if Fantasy can include (presumably functonal) necromancy, vampires, and demons?)
Supernatural Horror and Dark Fantasy can easily include those, of course - or lack them. But so can other genres of Fantasy (but non-supernatural Horror, of course, lacks them by definition).
Just using one of your examples: Dracula is Gothic Horror. The Vampire Chronicals are Dark Fantasy. Buffy the Vampire Slayer is a, usually fairly light, modern Fantasy. All include vampires, all are very different genres.
The dividing line between Supernatural Horror and Fantasy’s various subgenres aren’t the fantastic/supernatural elements, but, the atmosphere the work wants to create, the emotions it intends to provoke in the viewer/reader.
Anne Bishop’s Black Jewels Trilogy is sometimes regarded (at least by casual fantasy readers) as a great example of dark fantasy, but it crosses the lines of many genres - traditional fantasy, horror and romance.
Separating Dark Fantasy from Horror always seemed tricky. I agree with Tengu that atmosphere and emotions are really what divides the two. To me, something like Perdido Street Station by China Miéville has many of the Dark Fantasy components without really being horror. Fantastic creatures and magic are abundant in the fully realized world of the book. While it is at times scary and suspenseful, that’s not the primary focus of the story. Really, it’s a story about power and corruption, and bad things happening to good people. Very bad things.
And to answer your second question, Perdido Street Station is very good but also very depressing. The book affected me so profoundly that I have never read any of China’s other books set in the same world. Not because they wouldn’t be good, but because they would be too much of a downer for me.
If you want a review that is more detailed (with more spoilers) check here.
Steven Erikson’s Malazan Empire books have witchcraft, demons (although he doesn’t call them that), necromancy, and whole races of doomed beings in fallen worlds/kingdoms. No incest yet, but I’ve only read the first three books.
I think they’re very original, although I’ve only been reading fantasy for a few years. If he’s borrowing from anyone, I’m not seeing it. He reminds me a bit of Gene Wolfe, The Book of the New Sun, in tone, and in the slow unraveling of the plot.
I’d call them dark, very dark, but there’s also a bit of humor in some of the characters’ interactions.
The Malazan Empire books that AuntiePam mentions are good, as are Glen Cook’s Black Company series. Although the Elric books do qualify, I’d suggest Moorcock’s science fantasy End of Time books.
Check out The Gormenghast Trilogy. A gothic fantasy masterpiece filled with crumbling castles, grotesque characters and a murderous schemer as the chief protagonist.
If Glen Cook’s Black Companyseries counts, then I want to recommend it. But only the first 3. I will say that I had a little trouble with the first one, but over all I like the series.
What I’ve found myself wondering is: What’s the dividing line between Horror and Urban Fantasy? Take a character, and drop some element of supernatural into their otherwise ordinary existience - which genre is the story going to fall into? The only major difference is usually how many people the supernatural element injures or kills, and if they’re monsters or fairy creatures.
I’d like to answer VO3’s question, since I’ve read something very close to what he’s looking for, but I can’t. The book, unfortunately, is one I’ve tried repeatedly to locate for several years so I could reread it, and I can’t remember the title or author. Something at the back of my mind insists that the title has something to do with a form of the word “illumination” but nothing I’ve looked up sounds remotely like the plot, which is:
A young woman is caught in the middle of a civil war. All the aristocrats, like her family, are being murdered, and it finally comes out that the reason they’re being murdered is because they’re elves. She realizes that someone she knows was murdered because she sees their discarded hair ribbon, and eventually has to deal with the fact that she’s not human either, and everyone is out to get her. I think it’s loosely based on the french revolution, but set in a fantasy world.
Unfortunately, when I was a Freshman in college, just months after I read the book the town decided they wanted their own library rather than to continue using the univeristy library. So they formed a new library and took many of the fiction books. This book was one of them. If it hadn’t been, I could have found out years ago which book it was because the university library catologue is online. The town’s isn’t.
Man, that description is ringing all sorts of bells for me! I would have read it about 15 to 20 yrs ago so, unfortunately, the title and author have completely disappeared from my memory. I’ve got a feeling that some of it may have referenced the murder of the Huguenots or maybe some other reformation era atrocity.
I think a lot of authors write darker short stories than novels. It’s hard to find a balance between interesting characters and nastiness. Robin McKinley managed it well in a novel called “Deerskin,” which re-tells the story of the king who wants to marry his daughter.
Terri Windling and Ellen Datlow edited a whole series of short fairy-tale retellings that were very dark. I think “Ruby Slippers, Golden Tears” was the first, and then “Black Thorn, White Rose,” and a few other Black/White ones.
The difference, at least in my mind and definition, is that “Dark Fantasy” will still be primarily “capital F” Fantasy - knights in armor, but maybe a vampire night in a fallen kingdom. Kings and Queens, but ones involved in machiavellian scheming and creepy incest. Wizards aren’t grandfatherly Gandalfs, but otherworldly necromancers involved in witchcraft and the dark arts. Castles aren’t Fairy Tale Cair Paravels, but crumbling, gothic affairs populated by gaunt urchins.
So far, the Gormengast thing sounds perfect, as does the Malazan.
Oh goody. I’ve been waiting for Dopers to read these, because I have questions!!
Here is a fairly comprehensive website. The links don’t always work, however.
The first Malazan book is Gardens of the Moon. Erikson does no exposition. You’re dumped right in the middle of a power struggle involving an entire world, with a bunch of different races and cultures and gods who aren’t your typical gods, and he explains nothing.
I have yet to run across anyone who didn’t struggle with the first book, quit, go back, quit, go back, and then love it enough to read it several times. I’ve read the first and third books twice, and I hardly ever re-read. These books are just so damn good.
All right, freaked out and ordered Gormenghast, Gardens of the Moon, Perdido Street Station, and Shadow and Claw (the book of the new sun). I think i’m set for a while.
