Does Israel ever give out tough jail sentences for attacks carried out by Jews against Palestinian Muslims, that appear to be racially/culturally/religiously motivated?
I know they give out some fairly weak one or two year sentences, but do they ever actually prosecute and punish Israeli Jews to the same extent that they punish Palestinian Muslims for similar offences?
Depends who is watching
Yes, they do.They have a court system that does its best to reflect fair and impartial justice, regardless of race or religion or national origin.
Army officers and soldiers, for example, who commit crimes are subject to court-martial and to penalties, similar to the U.S. system.
And, trader, the whole world is watching Israel. Israel has a free press, so that any unfairness in the court system would be very quickly leapt on by the world press. One of the hallmarks of a democracy is the ability of a free press to be able to keep checks-and-balances on the court system.
In contrast, let it be said, the Palestinian Authority does not even bother to try Palestinians for attacks against Jews. To the contrary, there is ample evidence that the Palestinian Authority provides money and support for the families of suicide bombers.
The Palestinians have a free press to watch over their legal system, the press sees only what the authorities want them to see. Consequently, there is a complete absence of anything like “justice” in the Palestinian-controlled territories… except, of course, for mob rule when the mob suspects someone of being nice to (“complicit with”) Jews and tears the person to bits without a trial.
In Israel, murder and acts of terrorism are illegal, and viewed as the most serious of crimes. In the Palestinian territories, it seems that the most serious crime is trying to cooperate with Jews.
Thanks for that Dex.
Posts like that are what this board is all about.
John
I have two questions related to the demolishing of homes:
Was the home of the Israeli that assassinated Yitzhak Rabin demolished?
Was the home of Baruch Goldstein who killed Palestinian worshipers in a Hebron mosque, demolished?
Of course not - they’re Israeli citizens. Israeli Arabs who commit acts of terror also don’t have their home demolished. It seems as though you’re confusing military action with legal action.
BTW, the Baruch Goldstein memorial (built by his asshole friends) was demolished.
In addition to Alessan’s comments, let me note that the family of the person who assassinated Rabin did not hold a huge celebratory party, nor did they receive large amounts of money from any government.
The actions you are talking about are criminal acts performed by individuals. That’s different from acts of terrorism that are sponsored by a government (or would-be government.)
do a search on Yoram Skolnick
He assassinated the Prime Minister, does it really matter whether or not his family held a celebratory party or that they received large amounts of money?
Okay I see, the mosque massacre wasn’t an act of terrorism, and a suicide bombing is? Okay, I’m clear on that.
It was an act of terrorism done by an individual. The suicide bombings are sposored by a government entity. That is the difference which is not to say that one is worse than the other.
Haj
EasyPhil, I think what C.K.D.H. is saying is that when the action takes place in Israel and the perpetrator lives in Israel, it is handled through the same sort of police and court system you’d find in most countries. (Rabin’s assassin is still in prison, isn’t he?) Cross-border incidents have to be handled differently because Israel doesn’t have complete control over the occupied territories. I’m not saying I like the way Israel has handled most cross-border violence, only that I recognize that dealing with Hamas and Islamic Jihad is not a simple matter of sending the constable round to ask a few questions and figure out what is up.
It’s also not a simple matter of having the Israeli ambassador send a strongly-worded protest to an established, sovereign government of the type you’d find in most countries. With most countries, the next step in cross-border violence is often trade sanctions and/or sealing the border. As we all know, the territories are not “most countries”. It is a twilight state not even composed of contiguous territory; it is intertwined with the State of Israel to such a degree that sealing the border is unthinkable.
I don’t envy the position of anyone in the region. It is one of the most geographically complicated, historically nuanced, ethnically intense regions on Earth. In some ways I think it would be better for everyone if Israel had annexed those regions long ago, but I understand their reasons for not doing so and I respect the wishes of the people in the territories that don’t want to be part of Israel. Just because the average Muslim who is a citizen of Israel is better off, in every objective way, than someone who lives in Gaza or Jenin, doesn’t mean I expect everyone to shake hands and smile over an annexation plan.
To outsiders, annexation might represent the extension of citizenship, due process, and voting rights to a group of people who have suffered mightily without them. To most of the people in question, it would represent invasion and co-optation by a malevolent foreign power.
An obsolete solution was the old notion of annexation by other countries. People used to speculate that Egypt could take the Gaza Strip and Jordan could take Judea and Samaria. This wouldn’t necessarily give the peoples of those regions any real power to govern themselves, but you can’t expect much different with government like Egypt’s and Jordan’s. What it would do is let Israel off the hook of seeming like a villain in Arab eyes. The Muslim-majority areas on its borders would be governed my Muslim countries, so things would presumably be better. It just didn’t happen (except in the case of Syria and the Golan Heights). In Jordan’s case, King Hussein just said he wasn’t interested in the West Bank, perhaps because of bad experiences with the PLO when that organization was harbored inside the Kingdom.
I see this as a stumbling bloc that leaves the region in a state of permanent crisis. I have no solutions to offer but I still hope maybe someone else does. The Economist said the region needed an “Israeli de Gaulle” - someone nationalistic enough to be trusted by conservatives to trade land for peace, and many years ago it even had a specific man in mind. His name?
Yitzhak Rabin. 
When I said, “I see this as a stumbling bloc [sic]”, I didn’t mean specifically King Hussein’s refusal to take control of the West Bank. I meant the whole combination of geographical anomolies is the stumbling block.
Suicide bombings are NOT sponsered by government entities, there is no good evidence to suggest this, they are carried out by groups such as the al-Asqua matyrs Brigade and Hamas which are not the Palestinian Authority.
In general Israeli citizens carrying out acts of terror against Palestinians will not receive particularly harsh sentences. For example there was a big problem with Israeli settlers harassing Palestinians collecting the olive harvest recently (in which I remember they killed at least one Palestinian, possibly more). The settlers were able to do this with total impunity and the only people who tried to stop them were Israeli citizens (from groups like Gush Shalom) and internationals who observed the harvests to try and discourage the settlers from attacking.
Even when the perputrators are prosecuted there sentences are often derisory, for example an Israeli settler was given a one year suspended sentence for shooting dead a Palestinian boy.
Human rights groups on sevral occasions have condemned the Israeli government for refusing to investigate and prosecute members of the IDF and Israeli citizens who take part in terror against Palestinians on sevral occasions.
MC:
Incorrect. There is plenty of documentary evidence linking the Al-Aqsa Martyrs Brigade to the Palestinian Authority, and specifically to Arafat himself.
Boris: << EasyPhil, I think what C.K.D.H. is saying is that when the action takes place in Israel and the perpetrator lives in Israel, it is handled through the same sort of police and court system you’d find in most countries. (Rabin’s assassin is still in prison, isn’t he?) Cross-border incidents have to be handled differently because Israel doesn’t have complete control over the occupied territories. >>
Yes, thanks for putting it succinctly, Boris. The analogy would be the 9/11 terrorists compared to the recent Washington DC shooters. The Washington shooters are U.S. citizens in the U.S. and thus protected by U.S. laws, allowed to have an attorney, etc etc. The organizers of the 9/11 attacks were in Afghanistan and elsewhere, and so the U.S. could not simply arrest them, read them their rights, etc. but instead bombed the hell out of 'em. Those arrested have no rights under U.S. law and are still being held (so far as I am aware) without having been allowed access to an attorney, nor warned against self-incrimination, etc.
MC, there is a difference between “harrassing” and shooting.
And there is a differnce between the lunatic acts of an individual and the organized efforts of a group. Granted, there may be no difference to the victims of such attacks, but there are certainly differences in law, whether an act is part of a conspiracy or is premeditated, for instance.
And finally, regardless of whether the Palestinian Authority is directly responsible for the suicide attacks, it is clearly supportive of them. Money donated to the Palestinian Authority to be used for charitable works seems to find its way into the hands of the direct organizers of suicide attacks. And to the families of the suicide bombers.
Yes I know there are links between the al-Asqua Martyr’s brigade and Yasser Arafat’s own faction (IIRC the al-Asqua
Matyrs brigade started off as a splinter group from Fatwah), but the al-Asqua group are not acting on the authority of the PA and there is no good (I have seen what evidence there is) evidence to suggest that Yasser Arafat commands or funds the suicide bombers.
Sorry that should of been Fatah not Fatwah.
Here are some links for the original OP that may be useful in getting more of a factual answer for this question, as opposed to the opinions that have posted thus far.
Human Rights Watch is an excellent, well balanced site with enough information to please and upset people on both sides of the fence. Thanks for the link, Easy Phil. I’ve only started to read it but it does seem to agree with virtually all of what Dex had stated so far.
Haj