That’s just it, I’m not sure. Possibly fear of physical punishment, since I understand pain, would have been a bigger deterrent than something that I was unaware was so horrible.
However, actions performed during altered consciousness are a weird deal. As a sober person, I would have told you that I would NEVER drive drunk. But add a chemical to my brain and suddenly all common sense is gone. I didn’t consider ANY of the potential consequences…some of which could have been much worse than 17 days in jail.
I believe this is true of many crimes…there probably IS no deterrent, since crimes aren’t committed after rationally considering all possible outcomes. With the exception of white collar crimes they’re almost all acts of either self-destruction or desperation or both.
I don’t think there’s a good answer for the OP. I wonder, though, if self-supporting “work farm” type incarceration would be a better solution. For one thing, at least work gives people a purpose and even menial things can give one something to be proud of. This would cut the cost of running facilities too, which was a very big problem while I was in jail…MASSIVE overcrowding, inmates sleeping on the library floor, no attempt to adhere to the local laws regarding separation of “detainees” (i.e., me) from sentenced people (i.e., cell mate with 4 felonies for violent crimes). Running these places on tax dollars at a loss may be a bigger problem than trying to regulate privately run, profitable businesses.
No, I believe almost any criminal is capable of rehabilitating himself. But I don’t believe that other people are capable of rehabilitating him. All the rest of us can do is offer opportunities to those criminals who decide to rehabilitate themselves. But you can’t make them use those opportunities and some will choose not to. So I do feel that those people who choose not to follow society’s rules should be seperated from society and that’s where incarceration comes in.
Actually, that quite possibly would have changed my behavior. Understanding what it was like to be treated like an animal, knowing this would happen, might have changed things. As I said, under the current circumstances, all it did was make me drink more (though I never drove while drunk again). Having contact with criminals and being classified as one of them deepened my self-loathing to new proportions.
Maybe a mini-Stanford experiment in high school classes is a good idea.
The least they could do is give you lessons in street smarts before locking you up. I was a walking target. At least I learned a bunch of good slang, how to thread my eyebrows, and how to make wine using sugar packets and smashed up apple. Heh.
Right, and not all prisoners are really a danger to the public (i.e., personal drug users who don’t sell). Maybe the answer is more of the type of community monitoring we already have. Probation officers and the like. But GOOD ones who HELP both the community AND the offender.
I’m a little confused. Several of us have made the point about prisoners being seperated from society. Is there something specific you’re talking about?
One aspect of it that I think most people recognize but that doesn’t always get mentioned explicitly is simply waiting for people to grow up. Most people mellow somewhat as they get older and a lot of the personality disorders that correlate with criminality are things that people grow out of. A lot of what the prison system does is simply keep people locked away until they’re older and less likely to cause problems.
Of course the problem is that prison is possibly the worst place to grow up. I have seen people do well as a result of their incarceration - people who might otherwise have been killed or lost to drugs and alcohol, but overall, people leaving prison face greater hardship in the outside world than they otherwise would, even if they are less likely to commit crime. There is a burden to society that isn’t always accounted for in the cost of prisons, even on top of the obvious cost of reintegration and training programs.
No. I was summarizing the point made instead of piggybacking. The original premise left out separation of criminals from the public as a purpose of incarceration.
The function of separation and punishment, are tempered by adjustments allowed for by rehabilitation. I believe that is direction your points have taken.
We actually had those on a radio ad, in Toronto. We also have those idiot pictures on the cigarette packs and one more thing that I can’t remember off hand.
But to address what your suggestion ,going by the amount of people being picked up for DUI , it has not helped. That happens to other people , not me.
Sorry, I don’t suppose I can find cites for any of this but…
I heard that if someone did time in Australia, if they returned to society, their debt was considered paid, they could find jobs and have opportunities like anybody else. I.e. today if a prisoner in our system does a crime, when he’s released, what awaits him on the outside? There was a story on TV here about a coffee shop that hires ex-cons, pays decent wages and has some benefits etc. But that’s newsworthy…I suppose many struggle in minimum wage jobs.
I had a psych prof who told us of prisons, “If you weren’t really a criminal going in, you’ll be one coming out.” I.e. you have to survive by your wits, learn the tricks, play by their rules, and so on. If all that’s true, then take someone like KnitWit. OK, she messed up but she wasn’t a career criminal or anything. Leave her in that situation and then what?
I heard that back in the day, criminals like Bonnie and Clyde might have gone straight but there were no opportunities. Although they’d served their time, if nobody would hire them yet they had to work to eat, so where did that leave them? On the other hand they could live well if they turned to this life of crime and the skills learned in prison came in handy.
Which brings me back to Australia. What about a judge saying, “We can give you ten years for this crime you committed…or you can choose five years hard labor and we’ll expunge (?) the record.” What about some kind of incentive for the truly contrite?
I don’t think we can keep building prisons, throwing criminals in, and effectively removing them permanently from society even after they’ve paid the price that supposedly redeems them.
I was asking if being informed in advance that it was possible would have been a deterrent.