Usually when a car is designed for performance, there are more maintenance issues because the car has to be more complicated. There are more components, sensors, and everything may be pushed to more extremes. It can be more fun to drive, but expect to have the car in the shop (or on a jack in your garage) more often. There’s always a tradeoff between performance and reliability. It’s up to you as to what you want and what you think is better.
Even an oil change can be a hassle in a higher performance car. For example, BMW needs a very specific oil and filter. Normal oil change places won’t have what you need. And even if they do have it, they may not be very familiar with how to change the oil in it and mess something up. So rather than getting a oil change at Jiffy Lube, you need to drop the car off for a day at the BMW shop to get a $150+ oil change. And any maintenance work should also be done at a BMW-specific shop rather than a generic corner shop.
I have several BMWs because I like how they drive, but I wouldn’t have one if it was my only car. It wouldn’t be any fun having to scramble for a ride when it’s in the shop on a frequent basis. If I only had one car, I’d get something super reliable and not be as concerned with performance.
Lexus and Acura are both very fine cars. They’re both about equal in reliability. I think of Lexus as more comfort/luxury and Acura as more performance. If you’re thinking of a luxury car, either of those may be easier to do your own maintenance than a European car.
I’m putting in a good word for Mazdas. The 3 and the 6 are on just about every car reviewers’ lists for the best in their respective classes, and Consumer Reports lists them among the best in reliability. Finally, unless you go way up in price, they’re both considered among the best handling and performing, and outright fun cars to drive.
Yes, this. Toyota wanted to compete with Mercedes so they created the Lexus brand, instead they ended up competing with Buick for octogenarian customers. That’s what your brother means. Except for maybe a small bright spot with the IS300, which held the dubious claim of being “fun for a Lexus,” no enthusiast is going to get excited about them.
Not that Acura’s lineup is all that great either, but they do still put double wishbones on things sometimes. The Integra, (original) TSX, and TL Type-S are all fondly remembered.
I was looking at a Lexus IS 350-C and the Infiniti Q60S convertible. They are very close in specs, and reviews didn’t seem to find much difference between them. But the test drive favored the Infiniti hands down. They are certainly both great cars but the Infiniti has a personality and seems much more responsive to me. I am not exactly an enthusiast but to me driving is more than just getting from point A to point B. I bought the Q60S and I love it.
I don’t know about anyone else, but I personally would much rather have a “driving appliance” if such a thing is distinct from a “car”. I don’t understand anyone’s motivations in trying to get more out of a car than transportation in comfort. Driving is far too dangerous an activity to take as a recreational outlet, at least for me. Perhaps the danger is why other people prefer to see it that way; I certainly would never do something dangerous just because it’s dangerous, but it sounds like plenty of other people would.
I don’t see how you made the leap from “enjoy driving” to “do something dangerous.” Driving for pleasure is not walking on a tightrope across two skyscrapers, and car enthusiasts to not do anything “just because it’s dangerous.” Some people just care about transportation in comfort, and that’s fine. Some people want driving to be an engaging experience, just like some people like skiing and others like bowling. (I have certainly seen drivers doing dangerous things but that is not about recreational driving, it’s about unbridled aggression and ignorance of risk.)
You can buy a sports car and do what they did when sports cars were a new thing: GO RACE
Autocross, sanctioned by the SCCA is huge. You’d be shocked by the number of people you see in their cars every day that are on a track course on weekends, doing it safely.
**
High performance driving events (HPDE)**: At a legit track, you can learn to extract the full performance very safely. And again, you’d be surprised at the Corvettes, Porsches, Hondas, Mazdas that do this.
Track day: Actual racing with your street car
**Road Rallies: ** On road, sporting, sometimes escorted, but safe
Cars can also be driven legally and still reward the driver with responsiveness and feel. You can literally shift gears legally in a damn fine car and enjoy it. Sports cars and motorcycle “gangs” – look out children! HIDE IN THE CAMRY! (or Lexus… same thing!)
Many people will never extract what their car can offer, but many people are out there participating in very real recreational events and squeezing every ounce out of their cars.
I’ve owned (daily driven and tracked) multiple versions of both and they’re both good, reliable, safe brands, but you do pay a bit more. Calling either of them garbage (or most any other brand, for that matter) is a junk opinion.
Yikes…those “driving appliances” translate to $$$, which allow the “fun cars” to exist. There’s a reason Porsche made an SUV and moved downmarket with their offerings.
Anyway, Toyota (Lexus) offers a range of drivers cars, from the FRS up to their F performance vehicles. Acura has a bit less in the list of offerings, here, but have other areas covered and are shifting things a bit as they refocus. Both brands have produced a number of great drivers cars in their history, too, so they definitely know how.
But if you want A to B transportation, with more practical considerations, in something that’s nice and will work reliably well throughout its service life, you’d be fine with considering either brand. I’d start with a list of criteria, including what you do and don’t like about the Corolla, and work from there.
People don’t enjoy driving because it’s dangerous (generally speaking, anyway), they enjoy it because they like driving. Elements of driving can be hazardous, sure, but there are plenty of safe ways to engage in the activity.
Yes, there is no need to extrapolate to “danger” from mere wanting a more fun ride. Besides those who like sensible cars to enjoy with comfort and ease need to maintain the moral high ground in the face of obnoxious condescending talk about “driving appliances”.
Calling something a driving appliance isn’t condescending, and the term isn’t a pejorative.
Many vehicles are positioned to be just that.
One calls out vehicles for what they are. And whatya know… some people prefer numb, unenthusiastic cars. That’s fine. Not taking a stab at those people. But cutting to the chase helps. Many people wind up in harsher riding cars, because someone directed them to something which compromises comfort for sport, and the whole thing could have been avoided with a Camry or Avalon.
However, am sensing an unsolicited degree of criticism for people who want sporting cars, from those who can’t fathom a need for such things.
Heck, I use the term myself when referring to my stable, comfortable, reliable vehicles. But the first mention in this thread, as in “asked if I want a car or a driving appliance” was a condescending usage. They are as much cars as any “driver’s car”.
I’ve seen it used as a term of disapproval from enthusiasts circles, constantly, especially when it’s associated with “junk”, as in the OP.
Both the ES and Viper ACR are cars, good at what they’re designed to do, just for different purposes. Neither one is more of an appliance than the other, technically, especially when you look at how dedicated some track cars can be.
Color me green for envious.
