Does Marriage work in the year 2000+

Great Debates
21

I wanted to throw a few sociological observations in here.

In my rather humble opinion, and in counter with the usual blathering about the “sanctity and constancy” of marriage, the thing is that this humble and well-regarded institution is always, and always will be, in the process of evolution. Marriage until fairly recently wasn’t considered a romantic pairing as much as it was considered a financial pairing, and extended families were far more common than they are now. The pressures for a couple to stay together are much less. Additionally, the relative economic liberation of women (at least in the first world) and the access to birth control have made marriage an option rather than an obligation for women.

Additionally, the younger the person getting married, the higher the tendency to divorce later on. In your 20’s and early-to-mid 30’s, things tend to not only be economically unstable for a couple, but they also tend to be hormonally unstable. I’m not saying that all couples will divorce in that age range, what I’m saying is that the conditions that promote marital problems are going to be a bit more present during those decades.

So I don’t see it as laziness, immaturity, godlessness, or some kind of indication that society has gone to hell in a handbasket as much as it is obvious that society is changing, and marriage is rather slow in catching up to these changes.

My observation is that the older a person gets, the more stable their romantic relationships become. I think by then we have a much more pragmatic view about love and long-term relationships, and understand our own as well as our partners foibles, and are a bit more forgiving of them. Additionally, not all marriages are monogamous-- I’ve seen a number of successful, loving marriages that are either openly or, more common, quietly polygamous. The reason they work is that the people involved have rules about it, respect them, and are open to re-negotiating with their partners. It’s all a matter of shifting perspective.

My partner and I have been wildly happy together for 11 years, and the reason it has worked for both of us is that we both love each other deeply, and we trust each other. It also helps that we both agree on money, know how to talk respectfully to each other, have pretty equal sex drives, and most importantly, know the other loves them back. It took a few relationships to learn how to do that, and to learn how to look for a person I wanted to spend my life with. All relationships have a learning curve to them, and marriage is no exception.

22

Okay, slight hijack, here. We’ve spoken a fair bit about honesty, with self and spouse; humour; and elasticity in our approaches to one another and to the relationship itself.

Speaking as a single person, how does one decide, okay, I’ve beat a fair number of my childish, domesticated tendencies, and I think I’m ready to take the plunge? My own history tells me that the decision to go there is easy, but the reality may not stack up. To wit: two failed engagements and a live-in that was mildly disastrous. And every time, I thought I knew what I was doing.

So, when/how do you know you’ve gotten it together enough to participate fairly in marriage?

23

Well, sometimes you don’t. Not terribly helpful, but the truth. That’s why divorce happens.

One thing I’ve noticed, though, is that the times I’ve been deadset sure that I know what I’m doing are the times I’ve usually been wrong. The times I’ve freely admitted to myself and others that I’m not entirely sure what I’m doing, but I’m trying it anyway, it’s usually turned out all right.

I’ve developed a little theory about this as regards major life decisions. When you’re faced with a major life change (you’ve gotten engaged, or the little stick just turned blue, or whatever), no matter how happy and excited you are, there tends to be a moment when you think, “Oh my Gawd, what am I doing?” The enormity of it all hits you in a wave, and it scares the hell out you. This is perfectly normal and healthy. I’ve come to think that if you don’t ever have this sort of moment about a big decision, maybe you aren’t thinking about it seriously enough.

This is, of course, just my little pet theory. There’s nothing behind it but my experience and that of my family and friends, and it was roundly criticized on the wedding-planning board I used to hang out on.

24

That strikes me as excellent advice, especially as regards marriage.

If you aren’t even a little bit scared about getting married, then you probably aren’t considering it as a “forever” thing. Anything you’re committing to forever should scare you a little bit!

Julie

25

haha, good advice!

26
27

A good friend of mine had a good way to explain marriage. His quote:

“Marriage is a decision made on a daily basis, sometimes more than once a day!”

I’ve been married for 16+ years and wouldn’t trade it for another life. We work together and we share together. We each have our quirks and respect each other despite them. I can only think of 1 divorce experience between our two extended families and that was a cousin of mine. My parents will be celebrating their 50th anniversary next June an my wife’s parents just celebrated their 42nd anniversary. Both sets of our grandparents remained married to each other until death so I guess it just runs in our families.

There are a lot of forces working against marriage and many marriages don’t weather all the storms of relationships. For the few who do manage to stay together I feel they experience an intimacy in which few can relate. Its sometimes scary to me that I will have a thought about something only to discover that my spouse who is at work 25 or more miles away is thinking aobut the very same subject almost at the exact same time.

This has occurred several times in the last several years. I’ll call her and say you know what mundane item just crossed my mind and damn if she doesn’t guess it and say that for some strange reason she was thinking along similar lines.

I’m not speaking about something specific to our relationship. I’m refering to things that have nothing to do with our relationship. Its a little spooky and odd to me but I get over it. It might be after so many years of being together we have synched our brainwaves somehow. Ok so some of you will think I’m getting goofy with this so I’ll end it here.

28

Marriage can work today, but it needs a few things:

  1. Good role models. For some reason, I and all of my friends who are married have parents who have stayed married. No divorced parents (or grandparents) in the bunch. And the few people I know whose parents are divorced, have given up on the idea of marriage in their own lives. So I, my siblings, and our friends have married parents to look to and married friends to look to for reassurance. That’s important.

  2. Overlook, overlook, overlook. Be forgiving of each other’s minor faults.

  3. Don’t fight. I mean it. My wife and I never fight, and we always hear from people “Oh, that’s not healthy!” Like hell it’s not. All those people can’t stay in a relationship with anyone. I’ve seen it. You can certainly disagree with your spouse (we do), but avoid yelling at each other and getting angry. Think carefully: If you’re constantly fighting with someone, maybe they’re not the right person for you.

  4. If one spouse is high-strung, the other should be laid-back. Two maniacs living in the same household is a recipe for disaster. All of my friends and their parents all have a similar marriage dynamic: One spouse who is generally more manic and emotional, one who is very calm and considered. You need someone to cool things down.

  5. Don’t be too grown-up. And I don’t mean act like drunken college kids–act like wacky ten-year-olds, instead. Watch cartoons. Where’s the fun in being serious? It just gets you wrinkles.

  6. Do things together. If you can’t do things together that you both like, then you probably should find someone else to hang around with forever.

  7. Do things alone. And don’t be mad if your spouse likes things you don’t. I don’t want to watch sappy chick flicks or listen to quite that much Tori Amos. My wife doesn’t want to play computer games or listen to 1970s British prog rock. So we don’t force either one to do those things. She watches the chick flicks when I’m out of town, and I play video games when she’s asleep.

  8. Most important of all: You are not You anymore. You are We. The one thing that amazes me about marriage is how I just naturally think of everything in terms of “we” now, and without any resentment. Where will we go out to dinner. How will my taking a new job affect us. etc. etc. We is not something that I’ve been forced to think about. It’s just a fact of nature. If you persist in thinking that what either one of you does doesn’t affect both of you, then you won’t last.

29

Okay, I have to say this: Thank You!! to both CrazyCatLady and Toad Spittle, for giving me things to think about here.

I’m currently in a new relationship, in which my gut is telling me to keep my space intact. Not because I have huge doubts about this guy, but precisely because I don’t. I tend to go too quickly, and I honestly believe that if I listen to my gut this time, I’ll have something to show for it. Not this year or next, but maybe the year after that. But first, I must chill.

But what CrazyCatLady said about the “Oh, my GAWD” moment applies elsewhere in my life: I just up and decided to become a real property appraiser one day, and blithely sent off my application and my money, without giving it a second’s thought. Well, since they took my money, I have been thinking A LOT. I got the books and the OMG moment hit me hard, but I’m convinced that I can and should do this. As for not knowing HOW to, that’s why I’m taking courses. So thank you, you’ve set my mind at ease on that score, too.

30

Awesome advice toadspittle! I certainly find it applicable within my own marriage.

31

Well, thank you EVER SO MUCH for pre-dooming my marriage without ever bothering to get to know me or my wife. Yes, we’ve only been married a mere ten years, but we’re DOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOMED by our parents’ failure. Ah the sins of the fathers shall be visited upon us inevitably and inescapably unto the umpty-zillionth generation!

32

toadspittle, if I were in a relationship where I wasn’t able to get angry, I’d be in a relationship that would seriously mangle my emotional health. I get angry. This is a fact of life. Having to repress that to follow someone else’s “Don’t fight” rule would be much harder on everyone than just having done with it. Not fighting leaves me embittered, which is bad for all aspects of my relationships.

Rules for relationships, like everything else, really very much depend on the people involved with them. I find thinking like a fragment of a ‘we’ unhealthy, too, though I agree with you that paying attention to how actions affect one’s partners is pretty damn important.

33

You know, marriage is the number one cause of divorce in this country.

34

I have a very short fuse I’ve noticed when I am hungry, tired, or stressed. If my boyfriend says something I don’t like during these times most likely I’ll yell at him. That’s pretty shitty of me. So I try to stop yelling as quickly as I notice it and apologize for yelling. That’s a type of respect I learned after failed relationships. I know that I am not ready for marriage because I still do things that are disrespectful to my boyfirend. (ex. rehashing old issues to get attention and other things based on my immaturity) I am not happy that I do these things but I am trying very hard to be more mature. I try to be more reasonable and calmer. And my boyfriend recognizes that I am making progress.

I wonder how many people actively try to be respectful of their partners. My guess would be all those who stay married.

35

I think parlo has something here. Maturity level is an important factor in a marriage. People getting married young have not had enough time to develop and establish their own “Single” identity. The marriages I’ve seen fail were mostly consumated while the individuals are way too young and immature. They did not have any time to be alone and develop on their own and after maturing saw that there was a much larger world for them to explore which could not be done while married.

In my experience I spent 8 years on my own before I was married. I experienced alot on my own and got the chance to see the world before I took the committment of marriage.

36

I (:o) am 25. I guess I should be more mature than I am but like I said I’m working on it. I guess age can be a really big factor when someone hasn’t had to be responsible for themself before getting married. None of my relationships, before I moved out on my own and started paying my own bills in their entirity, worked. So to young (even though I feel too old to be), immature, self-aware, we should also add capable of living independently.

37

Hey parlo I don’t think I matured until I was 29 and my wife was just about to deliver our child. I got married when I was 26. I owned my own home as well as several rental properties and worked full time in the restaurant management business as well. I was living quite happily independant. I met a girl though and that’s how all this marriage and babies stuff started ;). Had I stayed single I probably would be much more wealthier financially, than I am today but not wealthier in love and memories.

38

SunTzu2U, I am glad that worked out even with such an ominous beginning

. :wink: :slight_smile:

but it brings up a point

Sinshine said before

I think that when you start a realtionship you feel you are doing everything right. But one of the things is you don’t have all the facts on the other person yet so you can’t make a fully informed decision. It seems that you had at least 3 years before the first kid to really get to know your wife. I think that should go on the list enough time to get to know the other person regardless of your ages.

39

Yes and those were the best years of our marriage :: Ahem :: No seriously we did have a great time as newly weds for 3 years but when it comes to “birthin babies” my my we are gettin serious now! My relationship with her has evolved over time and the things we did BC (before child) although different are still as rewarding. At least we haven’t gotten to the point of having “hall sex”. :wink: