Goin’ out on a limb here. This is the first time I’ve ever started a thread.
Anyway, I had a very interesting and heated discussion with a coworker over lunch about marriage. Specifically, he was of the opinion that the idea of a marriage lasting your whole life (i.e that whole “'til death do us part” stuff) was a crock “because of the way the world is today”. I wasn’t too impressed with the basis of his viewpoint. Evey time I asked him to explain what he meant by “because of the way the world is today” he launched into some more generalities and then started calling me names.
I am of the opinion that yes, a marriage can last a lifetime, but only if you work at it and put a lot of time, effort and committment into it. (Hmm, isn’t committment what it’s all about anyway?) He said that he would never want to be married for more than 10 years or so and I responded by asking what the point of getting married was if he knew he was going to bail sometime down the road. Why not just live together instead? Maybe I’m a bit old fashioned, but I still see marriage as a covanent between two people (and God, too for that matter, does that mean it’s really between five people ;)) and it should not be entered into lightly.
So I put it to you, the esteemed Teeming Millions:What’s your take on marriage? I know many of you are, many are not, so I welcome input from all sides on this. Are we so jaded that marriage is really just a way to get a tax break these days, or does it still mean something more? Obviously, I’m a bit biased, but I really do want to hear what y’all think. Thanks.
My status: married 24 years so far (this time around; first marriage failed after six years) and quite happy with being married. I believe in being married for life, at least for myself.
Yes, it does take a lot of work. My not paying attention to it (and assuming that it was going to last forever even though I didn’t) was what doomed my first marriage.
I find it miraculous that two people grow in the same direction at the same rate. But there are as many reasons for marriage as there are ways to get married. My parents wouldn’t have dreamed of being with anyone but each other, but I’ve been in a number of major relationships in my life. I’m married for the first time and it’s working, but who knows what life will bring you? I think it’s 30% work and 70% luck, myself.
Marriage is worth all the work it takes. You just have to be very careful and marry the right person. People want everything “instant” and “easy”. Marriage is not a happy meal.
Marriage is like vinegar. It can just be plain white vinegar (a simple chemical)… but if you’re very careful, and choose your partner carefully and wait until you’re ready, it’s like balsamic vinegar. A cosmic combo of barrel and grape… that gets sweeter and more complex through the years.
I’ve been with the same guy for the last 12 years. We’ve been married 7 years this september.
Neither of us can understand the flippant attitude many people have towards marriage. We plan to be together until one (or both) of us dies - preferably at a very old age. The commitment we’ve made to eachother took a lot of work to iron out and is not something I’d toss away frivolously!
I’m also amazed at the things people don’t discuss before they marry like children and money. And it baffles me the things people fight over. I’ve heard one woman exclaim once “He told me the dress I bought was too expensive… I think I want a divorce” WTF?
With the uncertainty in everything else in life… health, the economy, the weather… I’m thankful I have my spouse by my side every day as my best friend, lover, cheerleader, shoulder to cry on… the list is endless.
Oh, I agree that a good marriage is the best thing going. I’m just amazed that two people can hit it and maintain it. It’s against all odds. We’ve been together 16 years and married for 6. It was hard work just getting to the marriage part. I think people used to stay married even if they were miserable, and nowadays, I don’t think that happens as often.
“Marriage for Life” isn’t for everyone… However, for me and Mr. Shana it is. I do think it’s very important to find someone you would actually want to be with forever. That is not an easy thing! My husband and I have similar interests, similar backgrounds, we even have a business together - not to say that we are carbon copies of eachother - but I do think having the same outlook/values/interests/sense of humor certainly can’t hurt. We’ve been together for 12 years and married for 2. I think he’s the bees knees and I trust him more than anyone I know.
I think you can make a lifelong commitment to someone without having the formal marriage part. I have been with my man for nearly 6 years, and we intend to spend the rest of our days together, this is happy public knowledge to all those around us. Our lifestyle, living arrangements, financial arrangements, future plans make this very obvious. And I moved to the other side of the world to give it a shot!!!
However, we don’t want to get married. We are not traditional or religious, our families don’t mind, it’s not our style. At the same time, like many people our age, we are not naive. We come from families who at various levels have seen divorce, affairs, multiple marriages etc. etc. You are right, it takes work and people don’t always grow in the same direction, even with the best will in the world. Sometimes for whatever reason it doesn’t work out, whether that’s after 2 years, 20 years, or in one case I know of, 40 years. It’s not the way the world is today, it’s the way human beings relate.
It’s about finding a relationship that suits you and leaves you happy and fulfilled - whether that leads to marriage, or whether you are happy to date for 10 years. It’s defined by your feelings and intentions, and a legal name for it is optional.
I think it a little unfair for your colleague to get stroppy and call you names - just as I expect people who may not agree with me to respect our decision not to marry, it certainly works the other way.
Your coworker’s attitude seems quite odd to me. I know plenty of people who don’t believe a traditional, death-do-us-part marriage can work for them, but they aren’t planning on getting married. Whereas your coworker seems to be planning on getting married with the intention of ending it after ten years or so, when he gets bored (or whatever). That makes very little sense to me. As others have said, why not just live together at that point?
How’s this for staying on topic, but tangentially. (BTW, I’ve been married 17 years.)
I don’t think that marriage should be a [it] legal [it] institution. Marriage started out as a social and religious custom, that has been institutionalized into laws. If the Roman Catholics don’t want gay marriages, fine. They don’t have to perform them. If the Unitarians and Anglicans do, fine let them. If your coworker finds some group willing to perform 10 year contract marriages. Fine. I just don’t care. Why should morality enter into whoever can get an insurance policy, or inherit money by default?
I agree with the above poster that your co-worker has some nerve calling you names because you believe in the traditional aspect of marriage. I think he definitely has some commitment issues if he has no intentions of staying married for longer then 10 years. I find that just strange.
I do believe in marriage. I was with my husband for 7 years before we got married. It was a rough time for us while we were dating, we broke up, got back together and realized that we couldn’t live without each other. Now after 13 years, I wouldn’t want it any other way. I couldn’t imagine being single these days. No thanks to hanging out at bars hoping to find someone or constantly on the look-our for Mr. or Mrs. Right. The diseases that are out there now are nothing short of terrifying. No, I think I’ll pass on ever becoming single by choice.
Pingalondon did write:
However, we don’t want to get married. We are not traditional or religious, our families don’t mind, it’s not our style. At the same time, like many people our age, we are not naive. We come from families who at various levels have seen divorce, affairs, multiple marriages etc. etc.
This is something I just don’t understand. If you have a commitment, joint bank accounts, a home together, sleep in the same bed, etc and basically do everything a married couple would do, why not get married? For people to use bad experiences with other family members and friends, as an excuse to not be married, it is just a cop-out to me. It basically tells me that you are afraid of commitment and want an easy way out if you do decide to split up.
I am in agreement on the ideal situation being to stay with someone whom you love, whose faults you are willing to tolerate and vice versa, because of the larger feelings and goals you share. And yes, like any relationship it needs “work” in the sense of learning to compromise, to give as well as get, and a whole lot of other things. I sympathise with those who for whatever reason do not find this.
That said, there are a couple of things wrong with the common idea that marriage is not what it used to be and that this is a bad thing.
One: As recently as a hundred years ago, a marriage “for life” did not mean 50 years. People did not live as long. Go back 200 or more years, and you will find that many people were married several times because their spouse died. Women often died young because of the risks of dying in childbirth when medical care was less available. All kinds of things that you expect to never have to deal with now because they are prevented or curable were a death sentence not so long ago: Appendicitis, diptheria, smallpox, scarlet fever, whooping cough, and tetanus, just to name a few. Back in the days of the American Revolution, setting the minimum age to become President at 36 was due in part to the fact that many people didn’t live to be that “old.” If you survived to be 40 or 50, you were probably strong enough to have outlasted many perils.
Two: Fifty or more years ago a lot of people stayed married because they had no other choice. A woman who was, say 30 years old and had a number of children probably had few, if any job options that would support her. There was also less awareness of spousal abuse and less sympathy for the victim. A wife-beater could get away with it because most people, if they even found out, would assume that the wife was at fault because she must have done something very bad to make him that angry. An unmarried woman was at one time considered a failure, and a divorced woman a slut, because of course it must have been her fault. In some times and places women could not seek a divorce at all, whereas a man could. Now, if your spouse is emotionally cruel, or even if the two of you simply decide you are incompatible and the whole thing was a mistake, you can do something about it.
Added to what you said, I think a lot of divorce in our society is directly attributable to the idealization and romanticizing of marriage.
I think that often people get the idea that their marriage will be eternal happiness and passion. When reality sinks in, I think people can become discontented that life isn’t living up to the fairy tale they envisioned.
Passion mellows for most, and romance fades into gentle friendship. A person can begin to feel restless and unfulfilled in their expectations if they expecteded a life where problems would dissapear in a fog of love, or that the excitement of new romance would last forever. Unhappy with reality, if someone new comes along and the sparks of excitement are ignited, they can sometimes feel that their marriage is flawed for not providing this constant thrill. They may leave their husband/wife for the new person and the excitement they offer, but will inevitably be again dissapointed when the relationship mellows.
Thanks to all for the input. My faith in the teeming millions is once again reaffirmed. Many good thoughts and well expressed positions all around. Particular appreciation to MLS for keen insight. I may not agree with all of you, but I very much appreciate the different perspectives expressed, and the manner in which they were offered. Unlike my coworker, you folks have obviously given this some thought.
I’m single, 26, and never married. I expect to get married someday, and when I do, it will be for life. If I never meet a woman who I think is worth the rest of my life, then I will not get married.
I think most people get married for the first time for the wrong reasons, and when they are too young.
I also think the guy mentioned in the OP was using “the way the world is today” as a rationalization for his own fear of committment.
I’ve never been married but see a lot of people getting married without seeming to put much thought into it. Communication seems to be a big problem; each party makes assumptions about marriage, whether it’s wanting to be taken care of in a way that doesn’t work for the other person, or not thinking their financial choices need to change now that another person’s involved.
The people I’ve noticed making the worst choices are the ones who “need” a relationship or worry they’ll never get married. These are the people you never hear from unless they’re between relationships or the people who go through the motions and don’t seem happy to get married…only to divorce a few years later.
The co-worker who says he plans to marry for a certain amount of time shouldn’t bother getting married if he can’t commit to a woman.
