Does the apartment complex have any responsibility here?

In My Humble Opinion
1

I’m putting this in IMHO instead of GQ because, well, I am not seeking 100% answers or anything and several of my questions may in fact just have opinion based answers.

The whole theme of our apartment complex is its pastoral atmosphere- large trees, big, rolling hills of lush grass, springs, creeks, and little waterfalls. It’s a lovely place that is right next to school, so we pay a premium to live there (not that this makes too much of a difference, but it definitely heightens my expectations for the property management company).

The problem with these big, rolling hills is that often times the grass is higher than the sidewalk, meaning any time they turn on the sprinklers (which, being in So Cal in the summer means they have to damn near flood the grass to keep it alive) or it rains , the side walk floods with not only water, but gooey, slipper mud. I mean it when I say I’ve never encountered more slippery mud in my life.

We’ve complained about it before- over the summer and were told they would look into it. Well, without any notice to us, one day we wake up and they are removing the 35 foot high tree that was right outside of our balcony (giving us tons of shade, privacy, AND was the sole reason we got that apartment-- our cooling bill went up $50 the next month!). It irked us tremendously that they removed the tree without any warning to us, but hey- it’s their property. When we asked why they removed the tree, they said it was because we had complained about the mud. Here’s the thing though, the tree is a good 15 yards from where the sidewalk is engulfed with mud, plus. . . don’t tree roots help stabilize sediment? :confused:

The flooding hasn’t gotten better, though. Even though the sprinklers are completely turned off because it is the rainy season, the rain is pushing the mud into the sidewalk more than ever before. While I can’t blame the complex on the rain, I feel I have a right to take issue with the fact that they’ve done nothing to rectify the mud-flood situation. In fact, just this morning, as I was walking out of my apartment to get to work, I slipped on the mud, causing me to scrap my knee and hip so bad that I was bleeding through my dark denim jeans. Every day, my roommate and I slip there, but we haven’t fallen until today- though, in December, my friend was carrying out her 1 year old son and totally took a spill on the mud.

I called the manager of the property again and again told her about the mud. I said, “look, I’m no gardener, but it’s a VERY simple fix- you just need some sort of retaining barrier on ONE side of the sidewalk (where the grass is higher) that is seriously no more than two inches high. You know those garden barriers that are like, 4 inches high and 50 cents? That would work perfectly. They sell plastic ones for almost nothing- though they wouldn’t exactly be aesthetically pleasing”. She just said they’ll look into it.

At this point, it seems to me that if there were any damages incurred, it would almost entirely be due to the negligence of the apartment complex, yes? Don’t get me wrong, I’m not suing because I scraped my knee today :p, but I’m just saying hypothetically in the future. Do they have any responsibility regarding this hazard? It is literally the only walkway up to our apartment and it gets INCREDIBLY dangerous when we are trying to carry things in. And while we are mostly healthy 21 year olds who can take a fall, we do have our older relatives as well as friends with children coming to visit every so often- we are concerned for their well being, too.

2

First of all, I would stop calling and start writing the letters, mail it to them (or drop them off) and keep a copy for yourself. Suggest everyone else write letters as well. I’m not sure a plastic barrier is going to do the trick, I think the mud will just fill up behind it and come over the top. What I would suggest is that they rip out the grass for about 18 inches on the high side and plant a row of bushes and fill it in with mulch. The mulch should keep the mud at bay…maybe.
Oh, and remember, the more of a stink you raise, the less likely they are to renew your lease, if that matters to you.

But I would suggest that every time it rains, take picutres, email the office, call them, write letters, generally make a fuss about how dangerous and slippery it is. Eventaually they’ll get sick of hearing about it and maybe they’ll do something.

One more thing, I was going to suggest something legal, but since you’re going up against property managers, they probably have their own lawyer so don’t threaten to sue, or tell them what they have to do, legally (I mean, you can tell them they have to fix it, but don’t tell them that ‘by law’ they have to fix it). If you get it wrong, you’ll just look silly and they’ll stop paying any attention. They’ll pay more attention when you talk about not renewing your lease. Does that make sense?

3

What Joey P. said.

Document, document, document. Photos, letters, etc. If you do take any legal action down the line you will have to be able to show that they were aware of the problem. Also, make sure you send letters to the actual owners of the property, who might not be the people who answer the phone when you call to complain.

It sure sounds like they don’t know what they’re doing. I’m a Master Gardener, and it makes no sense for them to have cut down that tree. But as you say it was their tree so they could do what they want.

Sounds like a grading issue. While those plastic barriers you mention would probably help in the short term, they are notorious for working their way out of the ground eventually, especially in an area with hard winters.

4

My guess is that they, as a building, are responsible for ensuring that the public sidewalk in front of their property is kept clear and in a condition that is safe for pedestrians.

I had similar issues with a local school who wasn’t clearing the sidewalks along the side and back of their property - a couple of calls to the city fixed my problem quick (our by-laws require that snow be cleared within 24 hours, lest the city do it for you and send the bill). Since the city technically owns the sidewalks and the property owner is merely the caretaker, they’re perfectly allowed to do this.

Of course, different municipalities will have different rules, so YMMV.

5

We had just renewed for an additional year right before they ripped out the tree. To be totally honest, if we had known they were ripping out the tree (literally two days after we signed the lease), we would not have reupped for another year.

At the end of this year, we’ll be graduating college, so if we even still live together, proximity to school wont be an issue.

Great advice though, thanks!

And Commonsense, great advice, thank you, too. We definitely do not have hard winters here though- it never snows and barely rains. Though because this is a desert climate, when it does rain, it tends to flood since the ground doesn’t absorb as much. I’m in Bakersfield, CA which is, overall, a pretty temperate place.

I will take pictures, though. When I get home today, in fact. Maybe I’ll post them on here so you guys can make some suggestions.

The thing is, this is a giant apartment complex- something like 500 units. The office staff includes three secretary/sales girls, the office manager, the complex manager, then the maintenance manager. The actual maintenance folks have their own building in the back and there are at least 4 full time guys. The gardener that comes in comes 2 or 3 times a week with an army of people. I guess what I’m saying is: they have no shortage of people who surely have good ideas. They are just being lazy.

Oh, and the tree they ripped out was an acacia tree- they claim those trees are notorious for causing wet ground and flooding. I don’t know much about trees, but that sounds like the opposite of everything I learned in ecology about trees in general.

6

These people certainly sound like idiots. No tree is “notorious” for causing wet ground.

Once you get those photos make sure you send copies of them - along with account of when you or someone else was injured or nearly injured by the mud - to the owner of the property. Don’t threaten anything, just tell them your many attempts to inform management haven’t been productive so you’re letting them know what’s going on.

Anyone with a brain will want to fix a situation that could end up being a lawsuit for them. Once the proper people have been informed of the problem and you have proof that they were informed (send the letter registered or certified or whatever) the next person who is injured has a one hell of a basis for a lawsuit.

7

Well, this is hardly a public sidewalk. Here is a satellite image of the compound in which I live. The little pink circle is the area that floods, but you can’t even really see the sidewalk there because the trees are so big.

8

Here’s the twisted thing about liability: if they “do something” that doesn’t solve the problem, the very fact that they “did something” means they knew there was a problem and should have fixed it effectively and didn’t. It’s assuming responsibility, in a sense. If there’s no written record that they’ve been notified, and they do nothing, then they can try to claim they knew nothing about it.

Documenting in writing is the only solution. Certified, so you have proof that a responsible party received it. Additionally, accept information *from *them (like what they plan to do about it) only in writing - don’t take a phone call. Then it can never turn into a “she said”/“he said” thing in court.

9

The property management people are stupid. Acacia trees can’t “cause” muddiness and/or flooding–actually since they’re native to arid climes they’re well suited to Bakersfield and are probably HELPING to absorb as much water as they possibly can while it’s available because that’s what desert plants DO. The issue here is that you’re probably on that notorious Central Valley clay that’s so pernicious. I lived in Sacramento and clay soil was one of the things I hated most about living there–turns into the snottiest mud in the world when it rains and then into baked ceramic in summer. What they need to do is get a Ditch Witch trencher, run a foot wide, 18-24" deep trench along the sidewalk and backfill with gravel to create a French drain. Hopefully they’ll be smart enough to realize they’ll need to grade it down to a place where it can drain, preferably one of your existing water feature areas.

Send letters, lots of letters, and definitely send one that details your slip/fall as well as the previous baby related instance, request they pay for cleaning your pants and advise that if you slip again and damage yourself further there will be legal repercussions. Take lots of pictures of the mud, slippy footprints, etc. Send those along with the letter. Makes 'em nervous to see documentation in action…

10

I’m no expert, but I don’t think that’s exactly right. At least not if matters came to trial.
I believe the public policy concern is to not discourage improvements, which might be the result if such actions could be admitted as proof of liability.
But, like I said, I’m not an expert.

11

Ah, gotcha. It’s still possible that city by-laws cover these paths, but from the looks of it, it’s probably considered private property and so would be exempt. Still, that doesn’t negate liability - it just means that you won’t be able to use the city as an intermediary.

So I’m going to have to agree with what’s been said so far. Complain in writing. If you can, take pictures to illustrate your point - this way, no one can claim you’re exaggerating or blowing the problem out of proportion. Request that any responses to your complains be in writing as well. Speak to other residents - if they have concerns, ask them to also make a complaint in writing.

At some point, the management will have to do something about the problem. They’ll have no choice, because there will be overwhelming evidence that they were fully aware and therefore, should someone happen to get hurt, they’ll be liable.

12

Oh, and it wouldn’t hurt to call the city and let them know about the issue. In Wisconsin, if someone has snow and ice (slippery white stuff) on their sidewalk, it’s a matter for the police. Perhaps you could drop a line to the police next time it’s raining.

13

You’re right. The thing to do, as folks have said, is put it in writing that you are hereby giving them notice of the danger (and copy all of the tenants). If that doesn’t fix it, (and unless they are stupid, it should) at least when someone actually is injured, they’ll have a better shot at winning a premises liability suit.

14

Probably, but not necessarily. My next door neighbor cut down all of his trees (as well as a few not on his property). Not only did the lying liar claim that he had a right to do so, but that the city ordered him to do so. The lying liar.

He was dragged into court over it, and has been ordered to plant new trees there. And by new, I don’t mean saplings. They need to be mature trees.

Diosa, I very much empathize with your treeless window dismay. That sucks.