I would have thought so too, but maybe it’s that she’s darker than a paper bag, or not light-skinned = dark-skinned.
The way I hear it, people can’t be turned on by it because black folks make a point not to air dirty laundry outside the community. How true is that anymore?
You have no idea how hard it is for me not to make more of a big deal than I already make it. I am on a solo crusade about this stuff. I really do think that if we keep letting these myths run rampant, the children (black children) will begin to really believe that we are a bunch of self-hating morons, and then we will be in trouble for real.
I don’t like the overweight analogy. It doesn’t fit. Dark skinned women are beautiful and they are valued in our community as such. They aren’t unhealthy. They aren’t constantly trying to ‘get light skinned’. So it doesn’t fit, for me. (Although overweight women are more valued in our community too, but that’s another thread)
I can’t speak for all black woman. I can only insist that I don’t know anyone that has expressed happiness that Obama chose a dark skinned woman.
I think that the idea of a black First Lady is appealing to black women for obvious reasons. I’ve also heard that a lot of black women don’t like to see successful black men marrying white trophy wives. Right, wrong or indifferent, the fact that Barack married black is comforting to some people. It’s not a make or break thing, but seeing an entirely black first family carries an extra feel-good factor for black people.
Now the shade of skin I don’t think matters much except as a signifier that Michelle is unambiguously a sister.
I couldn’t agree more.
Keep in mind that it’s not (usually) the black people who say about Obama. With Obama, most of the people who don’t understand why he’s black point out that he is just as white as he is black, was raised by whites in a non black neighborhood, etc. For others who are fully black like Condoleeza Rice, it’s a combination of demeanor and values. People who say this are making fun of her. They don’t really mean she’s not black. Puffy is highly successful, but you’ll never hear anyone say he’s not black.
Nzinga, you can’t really call it a myth without speaking for other people. I understand your point, I really do, but other people have experienced what you say doesn’t exist.
I am not going to keep qualifying myself. I have done it plenty in this thread and I always do. I will do it once more.
I am speaking for myself, my experience with my friends, family, associates, co-workers, social culture that I myself am involved with.
It is a myth that this self hate is permeating the culture of black people. I stand by that, regardless of what others have experienced on a case by case basis.
It is annoying to other people when I get overly emotional about these kinds of issues, but as much as I hate being the annoying one in the room, I do feel I have a responsibility to the black people struggling to overcome a lot of oppression and slander…I feel I owe it to them to speak the truth when I hear the lies about them.
ETA: I’m gonna clarify once more. It is not a myth that a black person may hate his black skin. It is not a myth that a white person may hate his white skin. It is a myth that hating one’s own skin color is a huge issue in the white community. I maintain that it is a myth that hating one’s own skin color is a huge issue in the black
But we aren’t talking about self-hate. Seriously, how do you leap from the OP to this? I’m not following the path leading to this argument.
My point was only that it’s odd to qualify yourself as speaking only for the people you know, then go on to speak for the general population, even if you allow some isolated cases. Is it a huge deal? No. Is it, as Parental Advisory said in his post, an issue? Yes. I’m going to stand by that.
Other people are speaking their truth. I don’t see anyone here trying to slander anyone else. I’m glad you recognize that this is an emotional subject for you, because I’m not sure where the points about slander etc. are coming from.
When people talk about cultural standards of beauty, they often look to the entertainment and marketing worlds for their evidence. This obviously has plenty of validity, but I’ve noticed that a much narrower concept of beauty appears in those contexts than people actually apply in their daily lives. Take, say, the five most attractive people you know personally–would you still consider them beautiful if you didn’t know them but saw them on TV or on a magazine cover?
I think it’s possible that some factors, maybe even skin color, may be important in attaining “high fashion/hollywood beauty” yet not important in people’s evaluation of their real acquaintances’ beauty.
There’s another factor to consider, which is the influence of white people’s tastes on the reputation and fame of good-looking black people. You can’t become widely known as the most gorgeous person in America if whites don’t think you’re attractive. The café-au-lait complexions we see so often in the media these days may represent a compromise among the differing tastes of America’s different racial groups.
I can show you the path, easy.
The idea that there is still a level of division between light skinned and dark skinned blacks to the point that one side would cheer that the president picked one of them as opposed to a light skinned sister is stupid.
The idea that there is still a division at all between light skinned and dark skinned blacks comes from a time when there really was a huge division there, perpetuated by white racism (house nigger / field nigger).
I hope the path is clearer now, because I have no intention of going into it any deeper. The whole ‘lighter than a paper bag’ issue to begin with is born of self hating attitudes.
Sometimes I will admit that I am not a great debater, or that I let my emotions color my posts on issues close to my heart. I hate when someone interprets those admissions as me being irrational. It annoys me every time.
I’ve read that companies like using light brown skinned people in their ads because everyone can “claim” them. Whites subconsciously think they’re tanned whites, blacks look at them as light blacks, Latinos think they’re Latino, etc.
Nzinga, I don’t think you’re irrational, but you saying you’re injecting emotions into this can explain why your points are coming off as more forceful and absolute (to me) than others are. If that’s not the point you were trying to get across, then I apologize.
Nope. My job to apologize. No excuse for allowing emotions to cause me to communicate poorly.
This isn’t self-hate, though. It’s not even divisiveness.
A dark skinned woman can totally love her color and other attributes and still feel like *women who look like her * do not get the props that they deserve. Not just by black men, but by society. Since most of us don’t live exclusively in black enclaves but rather function in a larger world, what society feels has bearing on our responses to things.
We live on totally different planets if, in your world, most dark-skinned black women feel as celebrated as those with lighter skin. We’re living in a society that is biased towards a European standard of beauty (and yes, black folks are under the influence of it…they’d have to be blind, deaf, and dumb to not be), so in many ways it shouldn’t be surprising that this would be the case. A woman doesn’t have to hate herself to be relieved when someone of stature steps outside that particular standard. All they have to be is human.
Re “European” standards of beauty aren’t there near universal beauty markers for women re attractive hip waist ratios, high cheekbones, large eyes, glossy hair etc. that are cross cultural? Other than skin color what are you referring to… and don’t say “weight” because that’s a function of the model and advertising industry NOT the preferences of heterosexual white men of European descent. White boys like some meat on their women just like black guys.
Sure there are attributes that are universally appreciated. But I’m pretty sure skin color isn’t one of them.
Skin clarity is, though.
Two different planets, it is. Because I am not talking about being celebrated on t.v. or the movies. I’m talking about pretty little black girls in the hood. They know they are pretty and dark. They know it because their peers let them know. I come from a rich and loving culture where dark skinned are valued. That is the planet I’m on. It hasn’t always been this way, but in my experience it is that way now, and I think it is beautiful to watch.
It happened with big booties. The media tried to keep pushing the idea that big booties were unattractive, but the ghettos of America did not drink the kool aid and they continue to celebrate the thick thighs and shapely butts of the black woman. I want to be careful to say that this has been my perception through my own experiences.
As far as there being lots of darkskinned woman just dying to be acknowledged by society, my advice to them would be to treasure the admiration they get from those that are wise enough to recognize their beauty.
I really want to stress that I don’t doubt that there really are a lot of dark skinned women out there that feel some kind of joy at Obama having a darkskinned wife. I have just not noticed this attitude at all, to the point that the article smells a bit fishy to me.
Your community isn’t the community, if such a thing even exists. Black people vary substantially across ethnicity, geography, religion, and class. What might be a “myth” to you might be the absolute truth to someone else. Don’t mean to sound so defensive, but I feel like your almost response calls for it. I’d hate for someone to read my posts and then yours and come away thinking, “Hey, according to Nzinga, monstro is perpetuating lies and myths. I always knew that monstro was a liar!” Your reality is no more real than Omega’s, mine, or anyone else’s. Note: you with the face doesn’t count, cuz she’s not really black.;).
There are generalizations we can talk about regarding black folk all day long, without argument. But then there are topics that aren’t conducive for generalizations–like this one–and it’s impossible to know, from a singular vantage point, what’s going on. All we can say is what we have or have not experienced (which I know you’ve said, but when you claim to dispel myths you claim to know all experiences).
I know that I have heard from multiple women positive comments about Michelle’s skin tone. Now, if Michelle were lighter in color, I don’t think people would be (vocally) disparaging about her. I don’t think folks would be saying, “Ew, why did Barack hook up with that stuck-up yella bitch!” But her complexion and her urban roots do make her seem “down”, more like regular people, which is appealing. Imagine if Michelle looked like Suzanne Malveaux. We would love her, sure, because she’s the First Wife. But don’t you think there’d be folks thinking, “Dayum. Why can’t the first black first lady actually look like a black lady?!” I know I would and I look more like Suzanne than I do Michelle.
It’s not necessarily about self-hatred or feeling ignored. I think it’s as simple as wanting someone you can identify with in the White House.
Attractiveness in men has always been linked to darkness. Talk and dark = handsome. Don’t know why this is the case. Maybe it has something to do with dark skin being linked to physicality (working out in the fields, doing physical labor, providing for the family). But women’s beauty, at least in Western society, has traditionally been equated with “fairness and light”. Even when women go to tanning salons, they make sure to dye those roots blonde.
So that said, even though I hope you’re not wrong, I don’t think your example indicates that black people are no longer “color struck”. Cognitive dissonance and irrationality are common features of racism and prejudice. Personally, I think it would hard for an individual, no matter how insulated they are in black culture, to not be insecure about their own skin tone or focus on other’s skin tones. My neice is an example of this. Despite the amazing upbringing from my very hip, conscientious, Afrocentric sister and her like-minded husband, my chocolate-toned neice still complains about being the darkest in the family. Maybe she just doesn’t like to stand out as different, which is completely understandable. But despite being told over and over again that she’s absolutely lovely, she still makes self-deprecating comments. I hope when she hits adolescence and boys start summing up girls’ attractiveness by skin tone and hair length “She’s light-skinned with long hair”, she’s more confident in herself.
One girl’s opinion:
I had to GIS Michelle Obama to see if she really was dark-skinned. Not really, in my opinion. When I think dark-skinned, my first mental image is this lady: and good heavens is she ever beautiful.
In fact, ever since I was a young girl I thought really dark skinned girls and boys were strikingly beautiful. I admit it’s probably at least in part due to their being fairly exotic – really, REALLY dark-skinned people are a little uncommon even among black folks.
And I’m white, but not so’s you’d notice. 
I think this is supremely excellent hair and I complained bitterly when my mother explained she could not put my hair into the dozen or so pigtails that Shamika had. I coveted her barrettes.
Of course you’re experience is difference. You’ve been passing for years! 
I think there is no danger there. I am about 100% certain that it is my experience that will be looked at with suspicion. I don’t think I have ever read a single black person agree with me on these particular topics on these boards. Never on blogs that I read, or on t.v., in magazines.
I really actually only see the things I am arguing with my own eyes in real life, so I would wager that you pretty much are safe from anyone assuming you are a liar.
That doesn’t mean that when I see things that don’t jibe with my own experience being repeated on and on in the media, on message boards, or in circles that are not predominately black, that I’m not going to speak the truth. I think I really have to.
Omega has really made me think of the way I need tighten up my communication on the topics that get me going, though.
