So, a rogue (as opposed to “rouge” 
) country gets its hands on a couple of surplus Concordes. They load 'em up with bombs and head for say, NYC or Seattle at 60000FT and Mach 2.2+. They are either not detected in time or are too high/fast/whatever for Eagles or Vipers to intercept them with missles (remember, this is a hypothetical… I am aware that an AMRAAM is a very capable missle). Is there any air defences in the way of SAMS for the continental US or is it strictly reliant on the Fighters in bases around the country.
The US doesn’t have a network of surface-to-air missile sites, no. However, we do have a large, capable, and long-range radar network that scrambles the fighters. The F-15 has a ceiling of 65,000 feet, a top speed of Mach 2.5+ and certainly the wherewithal to deal with purpose-made supersonic bombers, not to mention jury-rigged versions (Though I can’t imagine the theft of a supersonic aircraft not calling some attention to itself). Even then, its missiles are more than twice as fast as that. If you, as a small terrorist organization or rogue state, you can find something to beat that, you deserve the victory.
If you’re still worried, check out the YF-12, an armed interceptor version of the SR-71. Mach 3.2, ceiling above 75,000 feet. Run, Concorde, run.
I believe the Navy’s battleships can launch missiles, which would serve the same purpose but could easily be moved around. Don’t know if the subs could launch those types of missiles or if they only shoot off the long-range bombs.
And let’s not forget the American Zeppelin Core. 
Great Falls, Virginia, just west of Langley, was once dotted with a number of Nike SAMs and attendant radar facilities. If I recall correctly, Nike was a liquid-fueled, nuclear-tipped anti-aircraft rocket dating from the late 1950s. They were placed in a defensive belt around Washington, DC. Not only were they still there when I moved to the area in 1975, but one facility–the one which obviously housed the rocket–still seems to be hard at work doing nothing in particular when I last bothered to notice just a few years back. Its remote radome has since been turned into a park next to Forestville Elementary School.
I’m not sure if Nike falls under the ABM Treaty or not, but I seriously doubt any are still in operation. That doesn’t mean something else can’t be sitting in the mini-silo on Springvale Road.
I don’t even feel like I’m WAGging when I say with assurance that the Washington area is festooned with SAMS. Andrews AFB, Fort Meade, the Pentagon, the CIA, DMA, the White House, and Congress probably all have local SAM defenses, as well as an overall coordinated air defense system. However, one has to wonder how that guy kamikazed the White House lawn back in the 90s.
Hi, Carnivore!
IIRC, the ABM treaty allowed for one site to be defended by an ABM system. The Russians picked Moscow, we picked DC.
Or is it North Dakota?
Nike may have been excepted at any rate, because it was an anti-aircraft system which I think actually pre-dates ICBMs. I definitely don’t think it was designed to stop a ballistic missile in its original configuration.
Here’s an overview of Nike, with placements.
The Army’s Patriot missile (famous in the Gulf War for shooting down those nasty Saddam Scuds[sup]TM[/sup]) was developed as a SAM. It’s now being upgraded for longer-range “theatre” defense against missiles and aircraft.
The Navy doesn’t use battleships any more, but its Ageis class guided missile cruisers and destroyers have SAMs.
Here’s a summary of the history of the ABM treaty.
[quote]
1972 -- May 26 CONCLUSION OF SALT I TREATIES President Nixon and Soviet Communist Party Secretary Leonid
Brezhnev sign two basic SALT I documents in Moscow:
An Interim Agreement limiting strategic offensive weapons.
The ABM Treaty, limiting strategic defensive systems.
The ABM Treaty constrains strategic defenses to a total of 200 launchers and interceptors, 100 at each of two widely separated
deployment areas. These restrictions are intended to prevent the establishment of a nationwide defense or the creation of a base
for deploying such a defense. The treaty also codifies the principle of "non-interference" by one party with the national technical
means of verification of the other, thereby protecting the right of overflight by reconnaissance satellites. In addition, the ABM
Treaty establishes the Standing Consultative Commission (SCC) to handle treaty-related compliance and implementation issues.
1974 -- July 3 ABM TREATY PROTOCOL The United States and the Soviet Union sign a protocol reducing the number of ABM
deployment areas permitted to each side from two to one, and the number of ABM launchers and interceptors from 200 to 100.
1975-1976 SAFEGUARD SYSTEM A single U.S. Safeguard ABM deployment site with 100 launchers and interceptors and
associated radars is completed at Grand Forks, North Dakota. High operating costs and limited capabilities lead to a decision to
deactivate the site in 1976. The main radar at Grand Forks becomes part of the North American Air Defense Command missile
early warning system.Let’s not forget F-14’s and their Phoenix missiles, designed to engage multiple supersonic bombers nearly simultaneously.
The Aegis cruisers and various frigates carry (this is really rough estimate) perhaps 100+ and 40+ anti-missile missiles, respectively. These are primarily for destroying inbound anti-ship missiles and secondarily for shooting down enemy aircraft (which would be stupid to venture close enough to such ships).
I don’t see them being aimed at rogue airliners except in the most desperate of circumstances.
Tom Clancy’s Red Storm Rising (SPOILERS) has an excellent scene where Russian bombers launch well over a hundred missiles from long range at a carrier group protecting troop transports in the Atlantic.
The escort ships (Aegis, Perry frigates, etc) fire off every anti-missile they have, and F-14’s from the carrier assist, but many miss - about seven get through, crippling a carrier and sinking several transports.
My knowledge on this is 30 years out of date and European. In the late 60s and early 70s the US had a pretty elaborate system of SAM air defense plus some amount of gun air defense artillery. Most of that was still in place in the mid-80s. The first line stuff was Hawk missiles along the Czech and East German border backed up by Nike-Hercules batteries along the line of the Rhine River. The Hawk stuff was mobile in theory. The Nike-Herk stuff was in permanent sites. There was also a fair amount of small stuff for close-in air defense of landing strips and bridges and troop concentrations that was in fact mobile. Similar close-in air defense batteries were assigned to the infantry/armor divisions and not under the direct control of the air defense artillery command. The British Army of the Rhine in the north and the Bundswehr had similar air defense. Lord knows what the French were doing.
I think the Patriot SAM replaced the Nike-Herk. If my recollection is correct, the guys running the Patriot SAMs during the Gulf Campaign were wearing the European air defense command’s shoulder patch (orange shield, five yellow arrows in two rows of three and two, 32d Army Air Defense Command).
Didn’t a US Ageis-equipped ship shoot down an airliner in the Persian Gulf about ten or fifteen years ago, thinking it was an Iraqi fighter coming to bomb them?
An Iranian A-300 Airbus was shot down by the AEGIS-equipped cruiser USS Vincennes on July 3, 1988. At the time, the U.S. was actually “tilting towards” Iraq, and against Iran, in the Iran-Iraq War; we were fighting a low-level, undeclared naval war against the Iranians.
I can’t speak to the whole subject at hand without doing some research (which I’m not in the mood for tonight), but since it’s been mentioned I’ll add that I was a reactor operator at a chemical plant in Deer Park, Texas in the early to mid '70s and amongst other things we made solid fuel for the Nike Hercules defensive missile until about 1974 or '75.
OTTOMH, I think the ABM treaty allowed defense of two sites, but I could be wrong.
As for the altitude being an issue…I wouldn’t worry.
As of September 13, 1985, a properly equipped F-15 can take out a freaking satellite.
I’m going to hide under my bed now.
While the Phoenix can shoot down a cruise missle the ability to engage six targets is a bit of wishful thinking. The only time six Phoenix were ever launched was early in the program. At sea F-14s are never equipped to carry six Phoenix - logistic problems in actualy loading the missles on the wing stations) and are rarely if ever equipped to carry four. I was an F-14 weapons tech for nearly six years and never knew of a multiple launch exercise.
Just from what I have picked up here and there, Nike is no longer operational and our primary defense against air attack is to stop aircraft before they enter the Continental US. If SAM sites are out there, they are very well hidden and absolutely no one is talking about them.
I don’t imagine bernse’s terrorist would get very far if we had a suspicion that the un-authorized Concorde was inbound carrying a chemical, biological, or nuclear weapon. The alert aircraft would probably pick it up and down it rather quickly and without much fuss. Let the same Concorde file a flight plan as a civilian flight into National Airport and DC would be toast.
OTH, if you snuck a bomb over the border, you could probably load it into a Cessna from there and drop it just about anywhere in the US without too much risk. IIRC the only place with any type of even haphazard surface to air defenses is the Whitehouse and even there my WAG is that you are likely to be dealing with a bunch of Secret Service types armed with Stingers.
Since, according to the folks at UCLA, the Stinger has a rough range of some 4000 meters, and since the prohibited airspace over DC is only a few miles wide and extends to only 18,000ft (Washington National Tower Prohibited Airspace P-56 Avoidance Procedures), you could simply cruise by at about 20,000 feet or so and toss a bomb out the window. Don’t forget to file a proper flight plan!
Now excuse me while I go see why the Secret Service is knocking on my door…
The phrase is gerry-rigged. Rigging juries is a felony.